I'm glad this thread was available. �It helped me talk my way through my current discipline needs and find the resources I need.
I don't think anyone here is a "spare the rod hate the child" religious obedience advocate. �Here's a list of behaviors from the book I just ordered:
http://www.researchpress.com/scripts/details.asp?item=4950&detail_id=116&detail_item=. It's because it's mental health. �What you're describing is religious training. �What we're discussing is life skills training. �Like the Locke articles said, "(a Locke scholar) insists that, given Locke's description of men in their natural condition, although they may in principle have a right to life, liberty, and property, they can meet the objective conditions necessary to enjoy these rights only in government."
Even though this snippet is a quote from a Locke scholar, not Locke himself it still draws on Locke's POV of moral and rational men as those who engage in "creating property" contrasted by the antisocial (immoral and irrational) behaviors which describes the behavior training we were trying to problem-solve for (using parenting books, not history books). �That quote says, "Thus within civil society, the less rational were to be tolerated, and well-treated, but were not to have full rights within a civil government aimed at protecting property."
So that's why a couple mammas already said they don't feel the need to argue on circles every time over every little thing. �Kids aren't always rational, people aren't always rational. We just aren't all the time. �Sometimes it might take more than arguing till you're blue in the face to stop a behavior from being a hinderance and restore rationality and mainly the ability to ENJOY life, liberty, and property (according to Locke). �I think leaving the door open for frequent open discussions on just about anything most of the time is respectful to the young'uns. �I think if we reason with them enough and have a close relationship they'll usually be pretty good at guessing what we would say and why we would say it. �
My posts keep getting too long.
I'll tell you my favorite argument I've had yet with my two year old. �He was crying in the car. �I picked up a book, hoping reading it would soothe him. �The book was "100 ways to get to one hundred.". I picked up the book and read, "one", he cried, "not 1", I read "two", he cried "not 2", I read "three", he cried, "not 3", all the way up to ten. �I don't believe that irrational mindset will ever go away completely because I and everybody I know still gets like that sometimes. �I think the behavior training is to mitigate the damage we cause when we're in that irrational state of mind. �That's why that Locke scholar said, "the less rational were to be tolerated, and well-treated, but were not to have full rights..". He should have meant all of us at sometimes.
Right now, thanks to this thread, I have identified my discipline goals-mainly to make sure the boy enjoys group activities without drama. �And I have identified two resources - skillstreaming (which I wouldn't have found before realizing behavior relates to mental health) and nutured heart which sounds like it will help define the difference between authoritarian and authoritative parenting to my husband, which I have been struggling to explain. � �And it's available on cd he can listen to it on the way to work. Everybody says both parents should be on the same page with discipline. But as new parents we have two different views of what discipline looks like. The nurtured heart looks like something we can both understand and get on the same page over; it looks like it addresses several points the hubby and i couldn't get on the same page about with a all-around acceptable solution.
