Originally Posted by Old Dad
Agreed, however, the rules of our society in the U.S. do not include paying for an adult's education. Find me where that is a right in our Constitution or it's amendments and we have a different discussion.

This argument is a red herring and a straw man. At no point did anyone make the argument that any one individual should have a guaranteed right to a publicly-financed secondary education.

Originally Posted by Old Dad
Regardless, as an adult I have no right to make you pay for my treatment. As an adult, you have no right to the services or property of others.

I'll expect you to be a man of your principles, then, and cancel your insurance.

Originally Posted by Old Dad
Currently two of my eldest son's best friends had both had their college all but paid for by the U.S. military, one of the including a graduate degree, so I can be assured it's not just a fake worm on a recruiting poster.

The "how" here matters. For enlisted folks after their terms, the GI Bill is financed largely by other enlisted folks paying in their $1200 in the first year of their enlistment (when that makes up a huge proportion of their salaries), and also by the fact that they're accepting far below market value for their labors during the course of their enlistments.

For officers, the costs of their education is offset by the contractual obligation to serve for a specified period of time, also at a rate far below market value.

Either way, the beneficiaries are largely paying their own way.

Anyway, this is a red herring argument, because we were talking about the growing inaccessibility of a secondary education on a societal scale. Unless the military plans a massive expansion, they cannot play a role in alleviating that.

Originally Posted by Old Dad
As for societal responsibility, you make mass assumptions which don't become you, I fulfill my societal responsibility quite generously of my own free will, I don't need the government to use force for me to do so....and that's where my objection is, not to fulfill societal and moral obligations but to be forced by threat in order to do so.

By that I assume you mean you also pay your taxes, and interpret that as a social responsibility, and not something you're under threat to do.

Originally Posted by Old Dad
Once again, you assume FAR too much. The presumption, as often from those who are liberal, is that societal duties and responsibilities can ONLY be fulfilled though the government. Real adults don't need the government to hold their hand and force them to do so, they do so of their own free will.

Now I'd suggest that you cease with the personal character attacks and making mass assumptions about belief systems and values as it becomes neither of us.

Wait, so you assumed that I'm a liberal (I'm not), that I believe social duties are solely the responsibility of the government (I don't even know any liberals who believe this), and somehow I'm the one making inaccurate assumptions?

I'm not sure what system of beliefs I've attacked, except the notion that people should enjoy the benefits of society without accepting the responsibilities that go along with them. I don't recognize that as a system of beliefs, but rather as a pathology.

Last edited by Dude; 04/19/18 02:12 PM.