Originally Posted by Iucounu
Kid play is full of incredible richness of detail
No amount of imaginative kid play replicates the sort of detail I'm talking about, which specifically deals with rule-based play in a strategy game. Playing with dolls is not chess, and playing with plastic army men is not a full-on battle simulation with real working parts. Playing a battle simulation of an actual WW II battle is simply different by design from freeform play with figurines (it's intended to heighten the realism available), and any comparison that decries the loss of imaginative possibilities is intentionally missing the point.[/quote]

I agree it is different. I expect a kid is able to visualize and create detail. If kids aren't able to do that, play isn't going to be very complex, but I see that as a flag something is wrong. Imagining your own world and creating your own reality is different than being the consumer of the reality someone else has created. Even if your goal is a recreation of a historical even working from maps or written accounts to be able to visualize in your head and create your own reproduction, that requires a different kind of imagination than pointing and shooting.

Originally Posted by passthepotatoes
Quote
ETA: I think that maybe what is rankling with you is that you feel that my statement was overreaching before, in that the aspect of freeform play is partly discarded in a simulation in exchange for the imposition of more rules, so in your opinion it is much different and an important part is lost. I do feel that they are different, and I thought that this was understood: one does allow more scope for imagination; the other allows more scope for strategy and a more realistic experience of actually controlling soldiers in a real battle, despite the loss of the ability for tanks to teleport at will and other physically impossible feats, for superhuman abilities to save the day, space aliens to land and intervene, etc.

I'm sure some kids are all about fantasy and some all about strategy and some about a mix. Some prefer historically accurate battles and some do not. I can't see that imaginative play is lacking in strategy because I've seen very complex, strategic play. To create your own strategic play requires the ability to think through different game mechanics and make experiments about what works and what doesn't.

Sure, in the real life game you might teleport or bring in aliens but you are thinking of it and doing it. The reality is that yes in a computer game you can kill yourself and press start again. The difference with real life games is you need to use imagination and social skills instead of just pressing a button.

Originally Posted by passthepotatoes
If I were to use your style of reasoning above, I'd be inserting a statement or question here suggesting that by your logic, we can't expose our children to any sort of story or media created by another, due to the risk that they'd just be acting as a "consumer of a world".

I haven't seen kids lose imagination or creation from reading or listening to stories, I have seen it from too much screens. Not all of them, but a lot of them, yes.

I'm certainly not against all uses of computers. Not sure where that leap is coming from.

Originally Posted by passthepotatoes
It is also acting devoid of an integrated sensory and motor experience.
This doesn't hold water. Does one not reap the benefits of playing chess when one uses a board displayed on a computer screen, instead of holding the pieces in one's hand?

We just won't see eye to eye. I love a pretty wood chess set with nice weighted pieces that feel good in the hand. It is a sensory experience. As I said chess software can be good in the way of providing a ready opponent at a controlled level of difficulty.

Originally Posted by passthepotatoes
We'd better recommend that people have their children avoid playing with the standard rules of chess-- and better stay away from those incredibly limiting chess tournaments! grin

As I clearly stated, the real chess set offers the option to play standard chess and so much more. If kids want to play chess on the computer a lot that's great, however I'd also suggest getting them out to play in real clubs and tournaments though. Real kids are more unpredictable than computer software and require a set of skills you don't need on the computer including reading body language - and learning to lose gracefully and keep your cool.

Last edited by passthepotatoes; 01/29/12 06:57 PM.