Is it possible that some may see the strong and emotional language as the bullying, and what you term "social disapproval" as attempts at discussing the group "norms" and providing coaching as to those expectations? Is it possible that children who do not "get" this may have social difficulty and that parents who do not "get" this may have difficulty acknowledging their children's difficulty and helping their children learn social norms?
Yes, it is possible that using the word "hate" could be perceived as bullying by some (although I think that is a bit overwrought)--but my sense of Irena's story was more that the group was taken aback by what they perceived as "insensitivity/social inappropriateness," not outright aggression.
I can't be sure if you are directing the part about parents/children my way, specifically, but since the shoe fits: yes, I do think it's difficult for parents who have social communication issues to help their children learn social norms. The same might be said for different SES groups (think Ruby Payne). It is hard to understand nuances of middle-class social behavior and communication styles if that's not one's native tongue.
When you mention the context of certain relationships (professional life, acquaintances) this hints at different boundaries with different groups of people. These skills may also be useful in the classroom, at camp and extracurricular activities, etc. Some people pick up on social clues by casual observation, some by direct teaching. There are books and websites geared to teaching the basics to children and also as professional development for adults.
Now I'm confused. Are you suggesting Irena point her friend to social skills training?
Which cultures do you see as using these skills, and which do you see as not?
I can't be sure, but I think Irena's observation was that there is a similar dynamic to that discussed in the article ("don't offend anyone") in mainstream middle-class-suburban(?)culture. It seemed to me she was just noticing a general trend, which I have also noticed.
Some may say that an edge which challenges one's thinking with new ideas is different than making strong emotional negative/deragatory statements without articulating challenging new ideas.
Sure, but "I hate this book" could also be a conversation starter. There are myriad reasons a person could hate a book, and many of them are in no way derogatory in terms of the book's value. I "hated" Of Mice and Men because Lenny's death was so upsetting that I lost it in class and cried my eyes out...when I was a girl. As a parent or teacher, if a child said "I hate this book," I'd want to know more. It just doesn't offend me, and I'm trying to imagine why it would offend anyone. I would suggest that if the person in the book club
personalized that statement to the point of discussing it weeks and months later, perhaps THAT is a distortion, and CBT might help.
In what way(s) is having a social or cultural norm of politeness indicative of too much time on one's hands? By contrast, some may say that using precise language saves time as it is more likely to be understood, therefore less need for clarification to avoid misunderstanding.
Again, I don't perceive "I hate the book" as impolite. The "too much time" bit is in reference to this being gossip fodder weeks later. To me, a sound byte like that would not be powerful enough to elicit such:
emotional reaction(s), rigid thinking, close-mindedness, gravitating toward the negative, attacking, out-of-control ranting, lack of skill to deconstruct and analyze, etc., in terms of the friend who made a social error.
Even "antisocial" social groups have norms. That doesn't mean we have to universally embrace social norms as being a moral or ethical obligation, in my opinion.
People do have varying degrees of sensitivity and tolerance, and I agree that it is nice to be nice. But it is also a skill to learn not to be hypersensitive or too quick to judge others, or to recognize their background, experience, and perspective might be different from one's own. I'm not suggesting people ought to go around offending/hurting each other and not giving a flip, but perhaps somewhere in the middle should be the goal.
Interesting discussion, thank you for your thoughts.
