These are such great comments -- I am so happy to find this topic on here today. Yesterday was a unpleasant day for DS4 and me, him whiny and extra negotiative (that should be a word) all day which really wears one out. Many days with him I'm pretty tense by the end.

Last night I walked into a room to see him giggling and literally trying to swing our cat by its tail (he's known not to pull tails let alone lift a cat by one since 2) and he got the first actual sit down spanking of his life. He later sincerely apologized and spontaneously promised never to do it again. I didn't realize he could come up with such mature sounding things to say -- and the night ended with seemingly good feelings. But this morning I wish I'd thought of some alternative as spanking wasn't planned as one of our parenting strategies -- yet I'm still having trouble today thinking of what else would have been appropriate right then, I can't think what else would have made an actual impact on him.

Longterm I've noticed (unfortunately) that yelling actually does work with DS, for example he finally potty trained (right around 4) the very day that lost it and yelled at him about it. We don't yell very often so maybe that's why it seems to work so well, I just hate that it works as we ought to be able to get him to understand important things without that. We had tried absolutely every known potty training method previously. Ranting at your child for 15 minutes is not listed as an approved method in the potty-training books. It was as if, after a year of us trying, he suddenly thought, "oh, so they actually are serious about this potty thing".

Yesterday evening DH and I decided to go to 5 mornings a week at preschool instead of 4, for consistency and because it seems like days spent entirely with a parent tend to end poorly. I find that disappointing, that we somehow can't manage our 4 year old for a whole day. He is perfectly behaved with babysitters, and reasonably (though not perfectly) behaved at preschool. He just lets it all hang out at home.

Beyond upping the preschool days I'm clueless. We've read a few books, I really liked How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids will Talk, and also Raising Your Spirited Child. Those paralleled our gut feelings on parenting. But seemingly not working seemlessly. I read 123 Magic but didn't think that was workable for our family. I'll order the Transforming The Difficult Child Workbook.

Anyways, no useful advice from me obviously. It is really nice to know there are others having trouble at 4 also. If anyone has any other book recommendations please share!

Polly