Originally Posted by Val
Originally Posted by Madoosa
Kids learn to read and write and do fractions by living. It's a part of life surely? You have to try really hard to NOT expose your children to these things. Unschooling parents (by and large) are not negligent - they read with their kids, play with them, bake and cook with them - most likely how most of our kids here picked up the reading, the ability to form letters and the concept of fractions, measurements etc.

No, they don't, apart from in a superficial way. A child may learn what half and 3/4 mean from baking, but he won't learn about the positions of fractions on a number line, how to add fractions with unlike denominators, and how they relate to each other. Nor will he learn how to think about complex mathematical ideas or how to write a persuasive essay. These skills come only with significant instruction and feedback from someone who's very good at them, and a lot of focused work on the student's part.

Claiming that you can teach these skills through baking or living is, IMO, creating a situation in which other people can be deprived of options because they haven't learned basic skills. Some unschooled kids seem to get lucky and get PhDs (in that industrial system criticized by unschoolers). Others end up shoveling horse manure because they still can't really read at age 19. Those two brothers were in the same family. If unschooling works so well, there shouldn't have been such huge gaps in outcomes.

Unschooling also strikes me as being similar to approaches to teaching girls circa 1700: girls don't need a real education; that's for boys. So we teach them to read and write at home, and how to do the chores they'll need to do someday. That's a lot more outmoded than today's approaches in schools. Unless an unschooling parent is an expert in math, writing, literature, genetics, economics, and so on, it seems unlikely that the child will get a serious education. The superficial version seems like a more likely outcome, with some kids getting lucky.

someone has to shovel the horse manure. If all kids ended up wanting to be business managers or degreed professionals we would end up.. oh wait, there is currently a big shortage world wide of artisan skills. The most sought after skills in countries that see the highest numbers of immigrants (Canada, New Zealand, Australia etc) are all desperately seeking tilers, plumbers, bricklayers, construction workers, electricians etc.

At the heart of unschooling is the premise that each child will be happy in what they have chosen to do with their lives. And if they are not happy, they will have the ability to make the changes necessary to get to where they want to be.

The idea that everyone has to get a degree kind of devalues the degree surely?

and again you miss the point - unschooling doesnt mean that the child learns everything on their own, or that the parents teach everything in isolation either. It just means finding the resources to support the child's desired learning and interests. If that's a school or a tutor or a mentor or an online class or a business owner or a workshop or class then that fits the bill.

To this degree I recon each of us here have at some point and in some way unschooled - our kids largely love learning so by advocating for your child to be in that algebra class that they so desperately want to do then you are doing child-led learning. The difference is that you are not forcing your child to be in that class, they are choosing to do it and so are totally open to and enthusiastic about being there and doing any and all work that is required in that class. smile


Mom to 3 gorgeous boys: Aiden (8), Nathan (7) and Dylan (4)