Originally Posted by Val
Anecdotes are nice for telling stories, but they only give a tiny slice of reality. As for your next comment, are you saying that we should just abandon studies because researchers have "agendas?"

I'm definitely not suggesting that we abandon studies--I'm only saying that they are a part of the picture and that I wouldn't be so quick to discount the experiences that people have in the field. I believe that understanding the experiences of individuals is necessary to having a complete picture, and that collectively those experiences represent more than a tiny slice of reality. Generally, I would argue that in the hard sciences studies are more reliable because there is more control over the variables. What can be proven to be true in one setting can often be replicated in another setting. I would argue that this is less the case in social sciences because it is very hard to produce identical conditions�which is probably one of the reasons that such attention has been given test scores. Unfortunately, test scores fail to provide an accurate overall picture of instructional practice. On a side note, we will be working with MAP testing for the first time this year and I am anxious to see firsthand how students respond to it. I cautiously think that adaptive testing holds some real promise in accurately assessing response to instruction.

re: the question of bashing.... I may not have been clear about this, but when I am referring to media, I am including the public responses posted to newspaper articles as well as the comments made on televised news shows. Those comments are read nearly as widely as the articles themselves, so they have a significant impact on public perception and teacher morale. Again, my point goes to the climate in which educators are trying to work and the likelihood of education attracting candidates that have the background you are recommending.

I do believe that attacking teachers� unions is akin to attacking teachers. While I have definitely parted company with my union on some issues, on most issues I am grateful for their efforts, especially in the current climate. I see the union the way I see my government�even when the party of my choice is in power, we don�t agree on everything, but I generally feel that they represent my position better than alternative parties would.

Originally Posted by Bostonian
Teachers are on average intellectually mediocre compared to other college graduates -- they are not of the same caliber as say electrical engineers. Considering their average intellectual level, I think their compensation should be cut -- there are lots of people with teaching credentials who would be willing do their jobs for less, and I think there are lots of people without teaching credentials but with B.A.'s could also do their jobs (as Teach for America has demonstrated).

Don�t worry, we are not paid the same as electrical engineers either.

college degrees with the best salaries

Cutting salaries is not going to improve education. As far as merit pay: I might be able to support it if the base wage for teaching was better than it is. Of course, that is assuming that anyone can come up with a fair and reasonable way to assign merit pay. Currently the way to move beyond a low base wage is years of experience and increased educational acquisition. I can't imagine many teachers staying in the field if they are stuck with that base wage for years on end. I think that experience counts for a lot in education and do not see a revolving door of young, inexperienced teachers bringing us anywhere positive.

Re: Teach for America. I am generally supportive of the program when TFA teachers are meeting a need that exists. I also think it may play an important role in the future of education for people from diverse fields to have firsthand experiences in high poverty schools and a better understanding of what it takes to instruct unprepared students. However, I would disagree with your conclusion about what it has shown.

Washington Post--A New Look At Teach For America

I recommend following the link contained within the column, but the column does summarize some of the key points.
An excerpt from the conclusions portion of the study:

��.TFA teachers appear less effective in both reading and mathematics than fully prepared entrants teaching similar students, at least until the TFA teachers become prepared and certified themselves. While the small number who stay this long are sometimes found to be more effective in mathematics than other teachers, their attrition rate of more than
80 percent means that few students receive the benefit of this greater effectiveness, while districts pay the costs of high attrition.�

On the one hand this supports Val�s contention that math instruction done by teachers who are near the top of their college classes is a desirable outcome, on the other hand, it suggests that becoming a quality teacher is not as simple as just being a top college student. Either way, it is unlikely that lowering pay is going to attract the 80% who do their two years and then move on to something else.




Last edited by Taminy; 07/12/11 08:34 AM.