Originally Posted by kerripat
...there was some serious bashing of teachers as a group because their GRE scores were the lowest out of the categories on that one table.

Hi Kerripat,

Their scores were lowest on every table I've found. Check these reports from 2010, 2006, 2005, and 2002. Plus I have an old paper report from 1996. Click around on this site for detailed data on scores by major (ETS data). Add in the appalling Praxis tests and high failure rates on other pre-licensing tests, and there's an obvious lack of knowledge. It bothers me that people who state this fact get accused of picking on teachers. It's just a fact.

Originally Posted by kerripat
The only way to stop this cycle is to fundamentally change the way that teachers are recruited and somehow make it a more respectful profession, and yes that has to mean tougher requirements for teachers, but at the same time you must increase the benefits of the job or you will not get nearly enough people applying!

Yes, I agree --- but there are systemic problems that drive talented, knowledgeable people away from teaching. A big one is that no one is allowed to be promoted or given a pay raise or bonus because of excellent performance (see my earlier post). Good employees want to be recognized and rewarded for doing good work, and they'll leave a system that doesn't recognize their talents. If schools treat talented people with respect, they'll get better teachers.

Look at this data on math and science teachers from the NSF website:


Originally Posted by Study on NSF site
"At each step toward a long-term career in teaching, those who were more inclined to teach scored less well than those less inclined to teach."... For example, by 1997, the 1992/93 college graduates in this study with the highest college entrance examination scores were consistently less likely than their peers with lower scores to prepare to teach...:
  • Graduates whose college entrance examination scores were in the top quartile were half as likely as those in the bottom quartile to prepare to teach (9 versus 18 percent).
  • Teachers in the top quartile of college entrance examination scores were more than twice as likely as teachers in the bottom quartile to teach in private schools (26 versus 10 percent).
  • Teachers in the top quartile of scores were about one-third as likely as teachers in the bottom quartile to teach in high-poverty schools (10 versus 31 percent).
  • Graduates in the top quartile of scores who did teach were twice as likely as those in the bottom quartile to leave the profession within four years (32 versus 16 percent) (Henke, Chen, and Geis 2000.)

Note that point about private schools: they attract the highest scorers. Yet they don't offer tenure, pensions are not as great, their classes are only two students smaller on average, and they don't pay as much (see this link at the Dept. of Education). If money is so critical (as has been suggested here and elsewhere), why is this? Also, private school teachers don't get criticized the way that public school teachers do. Why is this?

Just food for thought.