I'd just like to say that getting angry doesn't help discussions of difficult subjects.
...there aren't mediocre members of every profession?
Of course there are. I never said there weren't.
The low test scores among future teachers indicate that knowledge of basic number skills, algebra, geometry, vocabulary and other things measured on the GRE and SAT are low average to below average among teachers
as a group. Some individuals (e.g. LilMick) may get high scores, but most don't. The same just isn't true for future doctors, scientists, engineers, economists, historians, etc.
I've never heard of a social justice requirement.
I didn't say anything about
requirements. I said too much emphasis. Here are some social justice-related education programs around the country (out of 18 million search results for "social justice education"):
Social Justice in Education at UMASS Teachers for Social Justice (Chicago) Teaching and Social Justice M.A. in San Francisco List of courses at Stanford (page 1) Note descriptions. Social justice is the philosophy that has brought us ideas like "closing the achievement gap" which sounds great, but in practice, means paying lots of attention to struggling students while forcing bright students to stagnate.
Social justice is a political philosophy, and as such, has no place in a K-12 classroom.
Perhaps this is less of an issue on the coasts, but in the midwest...solid middle class background. Television sitcoms, dramas and news shows are poor preparation to work respectfully or effectively with children and families from other backgrounds.
None of this is relevant to the discussion.
...you have just deemed some masters degrees less worthy than others....
Yes, I have. I don't believe that all degrees or ideas have equal merit.
and you have written about teachers as if you are in a position to judge the worthiness of a large number of people.
I'm not judging anyone's worthiness as a person. Please don't introduce distracting emotional segues into this discussion.
I have a hard time believing that you only expect to be seen as a professional based on your results at work (as opposed to your training and preparation).
in my profession (research science) gets taken seriously if they try to put more value on their training than on the quality of what they get done at work. The same is true of my husband's (software development).
No one.I know self-taught developers who dropped out of college or never went. Yet they get good jobs. I know community college grads with only an AS who do very well at work because they get stuff done, and they do it well. Etc. etc. If training is more valued in public school teaching, then you've just reinforced my position.
A talented, energetic person with other options would stay in a job where the idea of merit pay is controversial because:
She does not believe that there are good enough/fair enough ways to measure "merit" and does not want to see teachers penalized for taking on the tough assignments or sticking with the struggling learners.
I've no doubt that this is true for individual teachers. But it's short-sighted to force everyone to give up recognition for excellence in favor of ideas that appeal to some.
As for no "fair" ways to measure merit, I disagree, as do many others. Knowledge of subject matter (e.g. math, science, grammar) would be a good place to start. People everywhere, in every type of job have to be evaluated. No system is perfect, but teachers (as a GROUP) resist external objective evaluation (say, of the types that medical professionals, electricians, military personnel, lawyers, and scientists face). Being reviewed by people you know isn't the same.
Then again, what do I know? I'm just someone who has chosen to be part of a mediocre group of people. Obviously if I had any real intelligence I would abandon my students and go get a real job.
I realize that some of the stuff I've written is controversial, but replying in anger and accusing me of calling teaching not a "real job" is a distracting tactic that blocks honest debate. I am genuinely interested in other opinions, but I want nothing to do with shouting matches.
I believe that teaching is a critically important job and this is why I get so passionate about this stuff.
