Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Aargh! Only because we worked with her

I am so frustrated and I don't know what to do about it! (Sorry in advance for the length!)

DD11, who is HG+ and in 7th grade, goes to a very small school and things have been going really well on all fronts. When DD moved from the public schools to this school in 6th grade we were initially told by the principal that her math needs would be met. We provided the school with IQ, achievement, and MAP scores (and a skills ladder of what the scores meant she was ready for). Unfortunately, the teachers (her math teacher and the middle school math coordinator) were not on board with doing anything extra since they have had problems with kids who transition from the public schools in the past and because, after three placement tests where they admitted she did "well," they were worried she would have holes transitioning from Everyday Math to Saxon. Her sixth grade teacher even admitted she wouldn't learn anything in math until December, but said to let her know if she still wanted more after December. We did, and she finally got back to us in January, arranged for another placement test in February, and decdided in February that they couldn't do anything to help her but that we could buy the Saxon book for pre-algebra (with our own money) and give her work out of there on our own. Since DD was in tears about not learning any new math, she was anxious to do it. She worked out of the book on her own (with very very little help from us) and very often did three to four lessons a day in a total of 30-45 minutes a day and completed 105 or so lessons (much further than they get in the actual class). All of this was done with the promise by the middle school math coordinator that DD would then get to do Algebra this year at school.

At the end of 6th grade DD and all her classmates were given a placement test. At this point DD had only worked through the first 30 chapters of pre-algebra, which was mostly review. Still she did well. So, imagine my surprise to find that DD had been registered to take pre-algebra with all of her classmates this fall. We called the school and asked them to honor their promise to let her take algebra, and so they did. And DD has an easy A in the class with the math coordinator as her teacher.

Come to find out yesterday that the teacher/math coordinator -- who, importantly, is also DD's coach, the mother of one of her very best friends, and a friend of mine -- told the other students that the only reason DD was in algebra when everyone else was in prealgebra is that "her parents worked with her at home." Not that she was ready for the work, not that she had already mastered the material, not that she was in the class she needed to be in. And forget the fact that the only reason DD was working at home was that it was their only solution since they wouldn't give her anything at school.

I had thought that it was obvious to everyone that DD was really fitting in, that the work in all her classes is appropriate (she has all As in challenging coursework and she does it almost entirely at school). I am just beyond sad, frustrated, and mad that this person has totally discounted all the "evidence" and chalked it up to "her parents worked with her," which isn't even true. And even if it was, how is that different that what other parents do and what a lot of parents do with sports? And she didn't say it to me; she said it to all DD's friends.

Is there anything I can/should do to correct this misconception? I'm really afraid to say anything because this teacher is likely to be her teacher again after this year and also has a huge influence on DD's team placement in sports. Not to mention that she is someone I have developed a good friendship with -- so I have not talked with her about math at all this year since I thought DD's A in the class spoke for itself and I was trying to avoid mixing personal and professional. Or do I just try to forget this slight and move on. (BTW: I heard about this teacher's comments from another parent who had heard it from her child.)

[quote=mnmom23Come to find out yesterday that the teacher/math coordinator -- who, importantly, is also DD's coach, the mother of one of her very best friends, and a friend of mine -- told the other students that the only reason DD was in algebra when everyone else was in prealgebra is that "her parents worked with her at home.""[/quote]

I suspect this is what she believes because, to her, there is no other possible logical alternative.

I don't think you can do anything about it without something annoying happening, socially.

I'm not seeing anything to be gained her by saying something to her.

I vote for "vent, forgive as best you can, and move on." It's probably a no-win situation at this point, and even the best case scenario doesn't do anything to mitigate the damage (?) done to your DD socially with her peers.

Mitigate this with your DD, of course. OF COURSE. Oh, and don't ever FORGET that this happened. Because this person has just shown you a glimpse of what she really thinks about kids like your DD. I've found that those glimpses are instructive and ignored at one's peril.

I've also found this kind of statement to be the most harmful of all, actually, when it comes to DD and her self-esteem/imposter syndrome, etc. Our kids seem to KNOW the significance, too-- they know that the person saying it is subtly denigrating their ability and competence.

Since you didn't hear it firsthand, you don't really know how it was stated-- or, in fact, IF it was stated so brazenly.

Talk to your DD once you cool off a bit-- find out what actually came out of the teacher's mouth, find out how much it bothered your DD, and then decide how much it would be worth (and cost) to pursue it with the teacher.

If the teacher is someone that will be part of your lives, it MIGHT be worth it to bring it up casually at some point as "something that my DD found oddly hurtful." But I really wouldn't make a huge deal of it.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand why "her parents worked with her at home" and being placed in the appropriate class because she has mastered prealgebra are incompatible concepts. "Her parents worked with her at home" so she is ready for the class.

As a former homeschooler and current afterschooler and parent of an HG+ kid who is accelerated three years in math, I would not have a problem with my son's algebra teacher saying, if the question came up, that he is in that class because his mother worked with him at home. I did, and I still am.

I'd say the important thing here is that your DD is in the right learning environment, with a teacher who is supportive of her placement. Whether the teacher fully understands WHY your DD is ready for all that is, IMHO, immaterial.

And I don't think she's really all that far off base, because truthfully, your DD would never have been able to advance to Algebra if she hadn't been working on pre-Algebra at home, because the school was directly inhibiting her progress. So basically, all the teacher has done is made an incorrect assumption that you were heavily involved in that.

The benefit of the doubt perspective is that the statement is functionally not about your daughter. Your friend (the teacher) might've been dodging a "me too" competitive parent with that statement. That would place any blame for the other parent's child not being in class on the head of the other parent. Functionally a white lie. But when pressed the alternatives are:

1) Enable a competitive parent to pressure their child
2) Or same parent to pressure the school

I find attributing best motives (true or not) makes life more digestable.

OK, so this is a little off topic, but something that I see over and over in the gifted community is this idea that advanced achievement only means something if the kid did it on her own. That somehow, if the kid was specifically taught advanced material, particularly by her parents, that it doesn't count. Can someone explain the reasoning for this to me? Because as a former homeschooler, I just don't get it.

Kai, I think that this idea comes from the hothousing perspective that a child is only special because they've been pushed into "success" by their parents and that all children would be the same if parents didn't force them into achieving ahead of their peers. Ironically, educators say they want parents to interact with kids at home, but it seems they only want that so long as the child still is only at grade level.

But it's not like you can counteract that argument by saying something about their being in the >99.9th percentile.

And, DD does have a lot of really smart peers. But DD still is amongst the top students, so that maybe rubs people the wrong way?

Thank you all for your quick responses. It gives me a lot to think about.

There are three concepts here that are getting confused, generally, I think.

(1) A kid who pushes their parents for more intellectual stiumlation

(2) A kid who doesn't demand additional intellectual stimulation, but seems to easily absorb what the parents provide, so they just keep providing the material but the kid isn't pushing, and the parents aren't really pushing.

(3) Parents who are force-feeding their kids through academic feeding tubes regardless of the real ability of the child to appropriately absorb the material without 14 hours of constant pushing a day.

People normally think that (1) doesn't exist and that (2) must the same as (3).

Whereas in giftedworld, apparently (2) doesn't count; only (1) counts.

At least that's my thinking.

This reminds me of a conversation I once had with a friend back when I didn't have a kid of my own yet. I have a friend who came here from another country and she was telling about how well her children do in school and how they study hard and I remember for some reason explaining that in the US people think you are supposed to do well in school but not study or try. She didn't get it and neither do I but people really do seem to believe this.

Today someone asked me if my child knows any colors and said yes, she knows them all and since the person asking didn't have kids and she shouldn't feel like we are competing against each other, I mentioned a few of the other academic types of things she knows and was told "Wow, you must *work* with her a lot!". I didn't even know what I should say. We have fridge magnets, books, we count things. I guess that's working? I know she didn't mean anything by it but it did make me momentarily insecure. I never feel like teaching things is working, I just think of it as interacting with each other.