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    General Discussion Jump to new posts
    Re: Beyond IQ: The consequences of ignoring talent Eagle Mum 04/21/24 10:55 PM
    It is the digital age of smartphones which might afford Georgios other forums to engage in learning. If Georgious had parents who have previously traversed similar terrain, they might counsel him to keep a summit view in class and consider when and how to engage - perhaps allowing others to offer their ideas and waiting for the teacher to call upon him for the definitive answers.
    1 76 Read More
    Twice Exceptional Jump to new posts
    Re: Testing with accommodations blackcat 04/17/24 03:15 PM
    Thanks for your insight! Check your Inbox because I put more background info there about how we got to this point.

    He has been taking AP tests since 9th grade and back then they approved word processing, because his 504 plan states everything has to be digital. Last year when he took the AP Biology and AP Economics tests he was forced to handwrite multiple graphs because you can't do that with a word processor. He was able to slow down (he had extended time) and make it legible enough that he got a 4 and a 5. The 4 was for economics which had multiple graphs. Biology only had one graph. Who knows if those graphs impacted his score on Economics.

    For over a year now I've been trying to get the district to address the situation with assistive technology and put in appropriate requests to the College Board. The district has basically told the poor guidance counselor to figure it out. So she started requesting anything i suggest (asking for things to be trialed with him, but they never trial anything) that might help even though he hasn't been trained and has never used certain AT. In 3 weeks he needs to take the AP Statistics test. She put in a request for Efofex Equation but it should have been Efofex Stat, Efofex graph and MathType (he knows how to use MathType). The College Board approved Efofex Equation and denied MathType and I asked how he's supposed to type graphs with that. Plus Efofex equation wasn't even on his device. So she put in another request to substitute Efofex equation with Mathtype and add Efofex Graph (she was not aware that Efofex Stat even exists). I just got a letter from the College Board where they are now denying ALL AT for math, telling him to use a scribe instead. I have no idea how that would work. He's never used a scribe. Basically the College Board was tired of requests that don't make any sense, I think.

    The IEE was approved and I found someone who can assess him for AT. I need to find a psychologist that can do other testing but I am not sure what tests they would use given the handwriting issue. The district did give him a DeCoste Writing protocol whcih showed him writing 7 wpm (keyboarding 42 wpm). But there are no norms. I submitted outsdie PT and OT evals which show him uncoordinated and weak. To top it off he now has cubital tunnel syndrome and possibly dystonia and his hands feel like rocks. Basically the school district acknowledges he has physcial impairments, they just say it doesn't matter because he has good grades, he's in advanced courses, and the accommodations are clearly working for him. He has "equal access to the curriculum." I have no idea how he'd do certain courses like "Art." I'm also worried about things like Chemistry labs and holding chemicals over a Bunsen burner. Right now he's deliberately signed up for courses where he can succeed with accommodations So in their observations he does not look impaired.
    4 6,276 Read More
    Identification, Testing & Assessment Jump to new posts
    Re: Posting IQ test results/Intepretration of them aeh 04/16/24 07:39 PM
    Welcome, Chaya!

    Am I correct that this assessment was done in Spanish? (I notice that you've listed nonstandard subtest names, which I assume resulted from back-translation from English to Spanish to English).

    I'm going to start with some context on testing of this kind that is important in interpreting the results. First, it is generally considered inappropriate to interpret the scores as age-equivalents, except in very rare cases, so I've tried to give some rough approximations for what the scores you've reported actually were in normative terms, with the standard subtest names. Since I don't know which version of the WISC-IV was actually given (Spanish or English), or what the child's actual dominant language (not always clear with dual language learners) or cultural context are, I'm not going to convert these to actual numbers:

    Block Design: average
    Similarities: average
    Digit Span: (beginning of) average
    Picture Concepts: extremely high
    Coding: very low
    Vocabulary: average
    Letter-Number Sequencing: average
    Matrix Reasoning: average
    Comprehension: average
    Symbol Search: average

    Second, interpretively, we have a few additional cautions: this is a fairly old version of the test (how old depends on where you are in the world and whether it is the Spanish version), and may or may not be based on norms appropriate to the cultural/linguistic/educational context of this child, so the results on any given item or task have an elevated risk of being imprecise in either direction (too high or too low).

    So when we look at the results in terms of scaled score classifications instead of age-equivalents (which, again, there are many excellent psychometric reasons for avoiding as much as possible--but that's another, much longer story), we see that most scores are comfortably in the average range, with only two notably outside of it: Picture Concepts, which is indeed in the extremely high range, and coding, which falls in the very low range.

    But let's say these do tell us something about his cognitive profile (and that is definitely making some big assumptions). It would suggest that, in the context of generally age-appropriate thinking skills, he is much better at concept formation using concrete images than he is at abstract verbal concept formation, and that his complex pencil skills are slow (notice that he did fine on Symbol Search, which is timed exactly as Coding is, so it's not speed itself that is the issue, but how it interacted with the specific Coding task--which could be due to anxiety, as you suggest, or possibly due to fine-motor coordination and handwriting factors). For what it's worth, the exercise is intended to be--as you note--very easy. The point is completing it efficiently, which can be affected by many different factors, including hand skills, anxiety, attention, fatigue, visual tracking, etc., in addition to pure motor speed.

    I would not say the data support a poor short-term memory, but it is possible that he just compensates very well using other methods. I will note that it is quite unusual for exceptional musicians to have low working memory skills, though, as there is some association between rhythmic accuracy/precision and long short-term memory spans.

    While it can be true that those on the autism spectrum test less consistently early in life, I would be cautious about interpreting his testing results with a view to diagnostic classifications such as those you list, based only on a few numbers. All of the diagnoses you mention are typically made using multiple measures and a high degree of clinical training and expertise. Asking the question is certainly reasonable, especially if you are seeing other signs in daily life that suggest this, but be open to a very different answer than the one you expected.

    Finally, I am happy this young person has so many adults in his life who care about him, and who are trying to help him grow in every way! A child cannot be loved by too many people.
    13 36,437 Read More
    Twice Exceptional Jump to new posts
    Re: Son 2e, wide discrepancy between CogAT-Terranova aeh 04/16/24 06:12 PM
    So here's a little more detail:

    The correlation between cognitive and achievement instruments is typically between about .5 and .6, so as a ballpark, we would expect a composite of 152 to generate an achievement measure of about 130ish--and that happens to be almost exactly what his math measure is. In his case, there's a pretty marked difference between his verbal cognition and his nonverbal/quantitative cognitive measures, which suggests that he might have a nonverbal/mathematical preference (not that 132 is exactly low!). So while the 89th %ile score he has in reading is toward the periphery of the standard error range for his global cognition, it's pretty much a perfect match for his verbal score on the CogAT.

    You may be wondering why I'm using the national percentiles and not the local percentiles, which look much more divergent. That's because the CogAT numbers you posted are almost certainly national numbers, so I'm just comparing apples to apples. It appears that your district is particularly high achieving, given that the average student is about a standard deviation above the national average, which may be clouding the picture when you consider your own child's profile.

    In short: I would not worry at this moment about an unidentified learning disability. A tilted profile at this level of global strength is not necessarily a disability, and he is objectively ahead normatively in every assessed area (vs the general population, not your local pocket of brilliance). I think afterschooling in math is plenty. You are monitoring his progress and making decisions based on his overall development, health and happiness. That is all any of us can do. Take a deep breath, mama, you are doing fine!
    2 5,032 Read More
    GT Research Jump to new posts
    Re: Jo Boaler and Gifted Students thx1138 04/12/24 09:37 PM
    10 7,726 Read More
    General Discussion Jump to new posts
    Re: For those interested in astronomy, eclipses... indigo 04/08/24 07:40 PM
    TimeAndDate website is one of several sites online to see an animation of today's solar eclipse.
    1 1,884 Read More
    Parenting and Advocacy Jump to new posts
    Re: Seattle Public Schools shuts down gifted program Eagle Mum 04/05/24 09:18 PM
    Originally Posted by thx1138
    Seattle Public Schools shuts down gifted and talented program for being oversaturated with white and Asian students

    I never wanted to start my day talking about politics. (Let alone race.) But after raising two DYS kids I’ve become radicalized (or conservative-ized). You wouldn’t have caught me dead reading the NY Post. I used to read The Guardian. But they’ve come for my kids. Its us vs. them. Gifted issues are like 100 (1000 for DYS) wolves and 1 lamb voting on what’s for dinner.

    Just wanted to sound a wake-up call for the gifted. We’re on our own. Society is not our friend. As I pointed out in this forum years ago, we’re on a collision course with woke.

    An unsurprising situation for someone in the far right tail of the distribution of a population which votes democratically. Unfortunately, the majority usually vote for their immediate benefit(s) rather than consider that many of the benefits they enjoy are the fruits of the creativity and efforts of the few in that right tail.

    Unfortunately, I don’t really see a solution - it’s difficult, even for the gifted, to make headway, when we spend our time trying to be productive for society, whilst the slightly-brighter-than-average group who hold power spend all their time plotting on how to extract more.
    3 4,624 Read More
    General Discussion Jump to new posts
    Re: Quotations that resonate with gifted people indigo 03/27/24 07:38 PM
    " Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty.
    Anyone who keeps learning stays young.
    The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young."
    - Henry Ford

    This quote and more, found online at:
    116 343,101 Read More
    Recent Posts
    Beyond IQ: The consequences of ignoring talent
    by Eagle Mum - 04/21/24 03:55 PM
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/17/24 08:15 AM
    Jo Boaler and Gifted Students
    by thx1138 - 04/12/24 02:37 PM
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