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Hi aeh, thanks for the reply. Based on all of that I think we will stick with the 50% accommodation. For DS a lot of the extra time needed is for regular adhd speed issues, but he also spends tons of time on tics and what I have dubbed digital tics (moving the mouse cursor certain ways and numbers of times, scrolling repeatedly, tapping certain keys, etc. A computer keyboard is a huge distraction for DS (not to mention the distraction of having a world of information and entertainment available at any time to compete with on task behaviors). I have asked the school since the beginning of 6th grade for paper tests and assignments, but you'd think I was asking them to grow and pound their own papyrus and hire a team of scribes to translate to hieroglyphics for all the progress I've made.

The IEP has tons of SDI's, here are some highlights (there are about 5x this many total):

DS should receive extended time (time and half) to complete assessments. (Had some trouble with the HS math teacher on this one, but all is well now afaik with extended time on tests)

Homework should be adapted to reduce the repetitive content questions and reduce the number of problems on a single page. For
instance, chunking the amount of information or options presented on a page. (I have only seen the math teacher doing this)

When writing is not being assessed allow DS to provide answers orally. (I'm not sure how they are implementing this accommodation as the PCA was usually the person who did this and he hasn't had one in a long time, DS types at 12 WPM under testing conditions, slower in actual practice)

Graded assignments should be adapted to reduce the number of problems/questions and reduce the number of problems on a single page. For instance, chunking the amount of information or options presented on a page. (Since pretty much all school work is on the Chromebook on things like google office apps every kid sees the same thing and none of the assignments have been adapted.)

DS should ONLY be presented with the problems/questions that he is expected to complete. (See above. Also the only teacher who seems to be cutting down on number of questions required is the math teacher, but DS forgets he only has to do some of them and ends up doing all of them anyway... hence this accommodation which isn't being implemented)

Tests should be adapted to reduce the repetitive content questions and reduce the number of problems on a single page. For instance,
chunking the amount of information or options presented on a page. (Only the math teacher seems to be giving a modified version of the test)

DS has up to 7 days from when a graded assignment is introduced to submit it for full credit. This applies to any graded assignment outside of math homework or in-class worksheets that require immediate feedback to identify misunderstandings. If a lengthier classroom project is assigned and students are provided 7 or more days to complete, DS is expected to complete it in the same amount of time. (I've been fighting this one, I want reduced workload, not extended time. There is no more time in the school year for DS than there is for the other kids and DS never gets any free time on evenings or weekends because we are always trying to catch up on school work. The school says he should be getting more done in class, but without a PCA to keep him on track and since the teacher is too busy to do the "frequent teacher check ins", DS barely gets anything done in the classroom.)

Staff will work with DS to keep track of due dates by using a paper and electronic calendar to promote independence and organizational skills. (This planner hasn't had anything written in it in months. We were told very clearly at 2 separate meetings that anything not in the planner he was not responsible for, which led to him getting a B in ELA last trimester for incomplete work we thought he didn't have to do. This B is the reason he no longer cares about his grades, it broke his streak of straight As)

When DS is expected to take individualized notes, the teacher will provide him with skeleton notes. Teachers will post notes on
teacher sites for DS to access at a later time. (There are no notes, none online and none to be filled in by DS)

DS never knows when the tests are, never knows the assignments, rarely has needed materials, never has permission slips or books he needs to read for school. There is no communication from the school and DS is basically being left to flounder because he's not causing any behavior problems and he's doing well enough.

Just last week I had to sign a waiver to put DS in Chemistry class next year instead of standard 9th grade science because the teacher didn't recommend him due to him not getting a 96% or above in her class. He is the schools top student in both math and science by standardized test results and is getting no accommodations in science at all and is still maintaining an A due to mostly perfect test scores/natural aptitude and they want to put him in general science? I had to sign a form agreeing he did not qualify and he and I both had to write paragraphs to try to convince them to give him a try. Of course it's all "subject to availability." My paragraph was not very friendly.

We plan on giving the HS a chance next year, maybe they will do better. If not, I guess we have more options than I thought. Thanks for your help, I'll feel a little more confident moving forward.

MAP testing is designed for child-find--IOW, to identify students at-risk of academic failure or underachievement. Its use for identifying above-level students is rather secondary to the original intent.

You may find this reference from NWEA on average test durations interesting: https://www.nwea.org/content/uploads/2018/08/Average-MAP-Growth-Test-Durations.pdf
Take a look especially at page four, which pulls out the 90th %ile and above of testers, and then breaks them further into where they fall by test duration. So the 90th %ile of high performers really does test for about 1.5- over 2 hours per MAP test.

Note also that they are allowed to take breaks, and to test over multiple days, so that sessions don't become excessively long.

To address only the 100% extended time question: yes. The CB requires test-takers to stay for the entire time provided. You cannot leave early. This is the case for all of the CB's extended time accommodations (on APs, SAT, etc.).

Regarding +50% vs +100% on the SAT suite: given the conversion of the suite to adaptive digital testing, starting from the SAT and apparently moving its way down (currently at the PSAT/NMSQT), I suspect that +100% will become less critical in the future, since the low-level questions will not be presented to high-achieving students. I do find that many students are drained by the end of +100%, especially the ones who are taking multiple AP exams in the same cycle.

Does his IEP have accommodations for reduced items or assignments? Items sufficient only to demonstrate mastery of standards? Oral elaboration of written responses (complete assignment first on paper, and then orally elaborate to fill in details that didn't make it to the page)? Is he using assistive technology for written products (speech-to-text, typing), at least for first drafts?

And you can compete quite easily with honors/AP and facilities by looking into dual enrollment options at your local 2- or 4-year state colleges. Even if he doesn't place into say, college science courses that require calc, an intro science course aimed at non-science majors would still move faster than a college prep high school class. At this level, you're not looking to build a college transcript, just to keep his mind stimulated, so it doesn't matter that these might not be the level he would want on his college transcript later. (Besides, a lot of colleges will just consider them as part of the application package, not for transfer credit.)

My son takes forever on these tests too. The school agreed to drop the math test entirely and to just do the language ones at the end of each year. Occasionally they do a science test end of year as well. His math score would have been great for a HS student when he was in 4th grade, so obviously they weren't using the score the inform instruction and there was no risk of him ever falling behind. His verbal scores are always 96-98ish so we just check in with the map yearly to make sure he's on track. DS was missing out on way too much class time to get these tests done, loss of significant hours of instructional time is something schools like to avoid.

Hi all, long time no complain! Things haven't been great with the middle school, but we've been just living with it and waiting for it to end. Same old, same old with the school not following the IEP, not implementing accommodations and not providing 1:1 support. DS is in 8th grade, diagnosed gifted, ADHD, ASD, Tourettes, and anxiety.

My main reason for stopping in today is the PSAT. The school gave the test to every 8th grader (which I was happy with until I learned when results came back they gave my son the PSAT 8/9, which is not the test they said they were giving). So honestly the scores aren't actually useful at all other than practice and predictive value I guess.

Anyway, when requesting accommodations they convinced me to ask for time and a half rather than 2x time, the reasoning being that the student is apparently not able to leave the room until the 2 hours are up or do anything else after the test is complete (such as doodling on scrap paper) and I was very worried DS would not handle just sitting for potentially a long time after completing the test.

First off, is this actually true? If so, is it some sort of odd punishment for requesting too much extra time?

Second, DS was fine for time on the verbal sections, finishing with 5 and 10 minutes remaining respectively, but he ran out of time on both math sections. He had only 1 questions left on each. He guessed on the multiple choice question, but the written answer question he had to leave blank. Based on not quite being able to finish, would that be a reason to request 2x time on math for next year? Do kids usually have enough time to finish all the questions?

Finally, he scored as expected, 700 in math, 590 verbal, in line with all previous testing. But in school he continues to struggle with any written/verbal responses. He says the words go away or he forgets what he's saying in the middle of the sentence. His working memory is dual 19 level, so I just can't figure out what's going on. The school says he's not trying, he insists he is. He is so stressed about every subject but math because there is so much work to do and he can't even get the first word down in the time it takes other students to complete the assignment. I'm at a loss and at this point I'm usually angry with him because I just don't get it. How can you consistently score 96-98th%ile on verbal measures and be unable to produce written work while being fully able to verbally complain about said written work for hours on end? So frustrating. He's getting poor grades in English, science, and social studies for incomplete assignments. He gets A's, often 100's on tests. Last year he was distinguished honor roll all 3 trimesters, now he says he doesn't care about his grades because the work is too hard and he's given up.

After years of saying he doesn't want to homeschool, he has now changed his mind. But he's going to HS, so now is when I feel least qualified to teach him! How can I compete against honors/AP classes, science labs, or 3D printers? I told him he has to at least try next year and we will reevaluate after a couple of months. I'm also hopeful they will do better with the IEP there. The elementary school was overall great for him, the middle school was overall terrible, especially 6th and 8th where he had the same special ed teacher who is honestly awful. She's not mean or ill intentioned, she's just completely inept and never actually does anything she says she will do. She does not seem to care if the teachers follow the IEP and tells DS useful things like that getting As isn't important and that he's not A student material. Thanks lady.

So yeah, I guess this is a transition to high school post, a PSAT/SAT post, and a bit of complaining. We are doing course selection for next year right now and he was recommended for general ed science, so I have to sign a waiver to request he go into chemistry. His MAPS test last year for science put him well above the 99th%ile nationally and he got the top PSAT math score out of his class of nearly 500, but they based the placement on teacher recommendation!?! Said teacher (who is new to the school this year and started at the beginning of the second trimester, DS was doing great before her) refuses to follow the IEP and, according to my son, is mean to all of the special ed students in the class. Why does she get to determine these kids futures?

OK, that was more complaints. All done now, really

I understand your frustration and concern for your advanced reader. It's incredibly important to ensure that every student is challenged and engaged at their appropriate level. It sounds like you've been proactive in advocating for your child and seeking ways to support their advanced reading abilities within the classroom.

While it's unfortunate that the current resources and strategies in place aren't fully meeting your child's needs, introducing free textbooks could be a viable solution. These resources often offer a wide range of topics and difficulty levels, allowing your child to delve deeper into subjects that truly interest them and challenge their reading skills, you can find some of them here (https://en.openprof.com/wb/subject:physics)

When approaching the teachers again, you might consider emphasizing the flexibility and adaptability of these textbooks. They can be integrated into the curriculum to provide tailored reading experiences for students at different levels, without adding significant burden on the teacher. Additionally, highlighting the benefits of personalized learning experiences for both advanced and struggling readers might resonate with educators.

In addition to suggesting free textbooks, you could also propose alternative approaches, such as independent study projects or mentorship opportunities with older students who share similar interests. Collaborating with the school library to access additional resources or seeking out online platforms that offer advanced reading materials could also be beneficial.

Ultimately, persistence and clear communication will be key in advocating for your child's educational needs. Keep emphasizing the importance of differentiation and individualized support, and don't hesitate to explore various avenues until you find a solution that works for your child and their educators.

What is the school using the MAP testing for? Our schools were testing 3 x per year initially, but then decided to test only once per year for kids "on track". They save more frequent testing for kids who are considered behind. And for the top kids, they provided the next level up which they said keeps testing time down. If the schools are using the information for useful instruction, then I wouldn't change a thing. But if they're offering the same curriculum no matter what MAP shows, then might be worthwhile decreasing the number of tests.

Does he enjoy the test? If so, I'd let him continue to take the time. Since he's good at it, it may be more stimulating for him than the work he is missing. My 2E was always good at standardized tests too. And struggled with the classwork where he was totally inconsistent in his work product. MAP testing was fun for him and a place to shine. We were sad when they reduced the testing.

He will be moving into timed testing at some point around middle school, but he's young and the way he approaches life is absolutely perfect.

Both my kids recently attended Ivy League colleges or equivalents, and my observation is that broad statements like the one above hide a lot of information as to what's happening under the surface.

The most selective employers, such as those in finance or consulting, and the most selective PhD programs, will continue to disproportionately choose students from the Ivy+ colleges, regardless of what's going on at these colleges. Why? Because that's where a disproportionate level of talent ends up after high school. For example, roughly half of the national science award winners typically end up in either MIT or Harvard. Those students will have no problem getting the post-bachelors outcome they desire, despite any protests.

The Ivy League students that will be affected are those outside the top echelon. There are a good number of students at these colleges that are academically indistinguishable from the top students at a typical state flagship. Their employment prospects were going to take longer anyway, and no with the unwanted attention from the protests, they could very well end up underemployed relative to their degrees.

Yes! So glad you posted, EagleMum. The second link (Aurora Tutorial) mentions Aurora Australis 3 times... on the third mention, they explain that Aurora Borealis and Aurora Australis are mirror images of each other.

Unfortunately the "Experimental" maps do not show the whole globe. Here's a map for the Southern Hemisphere - https://www.sws.bom.gov.au/Aurora/3/1 The more geomagnetic activity there is, the farther it can be seen. Except, unfortunately, the activity occurring during daylight hours remains unseen.

Sorry to hear of your cloud cover last night. Locally, we had thick cloud cover followed by heavy rains. Fortunately, by about 3am the storm had passed, the sky was clear, the eerie lights were beaming and seemed directly overhead, reaching in every direction.

Aurora Australis was also impressive for residents in Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia. Unfortunately, residents in NSW and Queensland missed out because rain clouds blanketed our skies.

Those interested in science, and those who love them, may want to know... the Aurora are broadly visible this weekend due to a strong magnetic storm, reportedly the strongest since October 2003 (20.5 years ago). I've seen it described as an electromagnetic storm, and most commonly as an geomagnetic storm. Aurora were visible overnight last night (Friday May 10, 2024 to Saturday May 11, 2024) and are anticipated to be visible where there is not cloud cover overnight tonight (Saturday May 11, 2024 to Sunday May 12, 2024) in areas indicated by these maps: Aurora Forecast - https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/products/aurora-viewline-tonight-and-tomorrow-night-experimental

National Weather Service (NWS) and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) provide viewing information, including: "Often, people report that the aurora is pale white in color... a manifestation of human’s night vision where the eye first picks out brightness without distinguishing color. Only when the aurora is fairly bright, can the human eye distinguish the true green, red, and other colors... modern digital cameras are often more sensitive than the human eye and can detect aurora and the the colors of the aurora when it is too dim for humans to see it." (source: https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/content/aurora-tutorial)

Viewing may be best between 10pm-2am (source: https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/content/tips-viewing-aurora)

More info available at Space weather live - https://www.spaceweatherlive.com/en/news/view/536/20240511-extreme-g5-geomagnetic-storm.html

Related posts (a variety of viewable sky events... lunar, solar, astronomy):
- astronomy - Perseid meteor shower, annually in August - https://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/bb/ubbthreads.php/topics/250396/1.html
- solar/lunar 2024 - https://giftedissues.davidsongifted...ed-in-astronomy-eclipses.html#Post250708

My son is 10 and in the 4th grade at public school. He is gifted and has been diagnosed with written expression disorder, auditory processing disorder and a deficit in writing fluency.

My son’s school uses MAP growth testing 3x a school year for math and reading. Those are both very strong areas for my son. Because of the format of the testing, it bypasses all of his weaknesses. His MAP scores are very high.

In second grade MAP testing seemed helpful, as the school could finally have data to support his abilities and the testing helped identify him as gifted.

In 3rd and 4th grade, he has been taking a long time to take the tests. The tests are not timed, so they allow him to test as long as he needs. Sometimes this becomes 2-3 hrs of testing in one day.

I recently asked the school about how long he is taking on these tests and if there are any accommodations to make it less intense (thinking they may be able to break up the testing over a few days or start his test at a higher level).

The school got back to me telling me that the test times are excessive. That he needs to change his approach to testing. If he doesn’t know the answer, that he should guess and not take too much time to figure it out.

This is very contrary to how my son approaches learning. He self teaches a lot and he doesn’t have clear boundaries of what he knows and does not know. He tends to just be very curious and asks a lot of questions and experiments/tinkers.

It also runs contrary to our parenting for him. We encourage him to do his best and follow his interests and curiosity. We support strength areas at home… sort of like gifted homeschool enrichment.

Does anyone have a similar experience with MAP testing?

Does anyone have deeper knowledge about MAP testing and how that aligns with gifted/2e learners?

On one hand I think it’s inappropriate to have a child testing for 2-3 hrs at a time. On the other hand I’m not sure that modifying his behavior is the right solution. Is he just atypical enough that he’s testing the boundaries of the MAP testing?

I am also not sure that the school is really using the data from the MAP testing to change anything about how he is instructed, so maybe the testing is unnecessary and we should opt out. The school has identified him as gifted and their gifted program is in flux/budget cut, so he qualifies for all of the services they offer, but what those services are seem to be up in the air. A classroom teacher could use the data to customize his instruction. But, we haven’t seen this happen so far… Generally he gets regular classroom instruction, occasionally pulled out with other students who are IDed gifted. His strength areas are very high (he may not have same grade peers), paired with slow writing ability, which takes up a lot of his time.

This is such a specific question that only people who have in depth knowledge about gifted/2e can really understand - so I appreciate your input!

I’m not sure about the selective schools in your area, but here, in my part of Oz, they are mainly filled with students from highly aspirational families, with above average intellect which have been honed by hours of extracurricular coaching and tutoring. When my son was 9, he eagerly anticipated meeting like-minded kids in his Yr 5 opportunity class (primary school equivalent of selective secondary schools) but was disappointed to find that whilst they were more conscientious than his previous regular stream classmates, he essentially couldn’t discern much difference in intellectual quality and certainly none were capable of sharing and developing ideas at his level. For this reason, he decided it wouldn’t be worth investing his time in long commutes to selective schools for such peers and he would instead stay local and utilise his time as he saw fit.

In the second part of the linked article, siblings, Dafne and Andrew, had their father to guide them and that was the point I was trying to make earlier. Most gifted kids have, by the nature of genetics, one or both parent(s) who is/are gifted themselves and parents who have already negotiated similar terrain can offer advice from their own experiences, if not private resources to support them on their chosen journeys. My son was very much in Georgios’ position at school, but he’d quietly ponder concepts that he’d come across in Open University lectures and only actively contributed in class when his teachers (many had acknowledged that he was stronger in their subject matter area than they were) called upon him to do so. I do not believe these experiences hindered his development, rather, in addition to giving him plenty of time to muse, it afforded him the opportunity to take a ‘summit view’ of his surroundings and that perspective is/will be invaluable later in life when the EG/PG individual will inevitably find themselves at odds with ‘thought leaders’ who influence the majority.

My son also took the time and effort to reflect on how he could develop interpersonal skills to engage effectively with a broad range of people. He is now at college and the breadth, depth and heights of activities he is engaged in is quite breathtaking. Yesterday, he sent me some video clips of his college band’s recent performance, adding that they have been offered the facilities of a multimillion dollar studio to record their music, which for a self taught musician who’s never had a music lesson, is a nice enough compliment, but that he has so successfully engaged in quintessential teen activities is a personal coup.

Warning: Scientist rant ahead! Maybe we'll just have some "bad" AI like we have some "bad" doctors? The scary part of the medscape article was the last source where the student doctor decried the lack of study in their coursework on how to use AI in their medical practice. Although the specialized medical AIs may do well in controlled patient populations and study settings when directly supervised, it does not seem that we are at the "just let the AI be the doc" stage. Even for entering the orders or health information, you'd have to check that it was correct and at some point it is just easier to do it yourself. I've tried, within the last month, having AI 1) summarize a journal article, 2) list the GPCRs that do not have seven transmembrane domains, and 3) write an email requesting reagents from the author of a journal article. Outcomes: 1) Summarized, but missed both the importance of the article to the field and the key elements that made the paper a major advance in medicine--in other words, it failed to integrate the new knowledge to the existing body of work. Also failed to find any weaknesses or flaws even when directly asked to analyze for this aspect. Every study has some weakness or flaw. 2) Hallucinated and made false statements while listing a reference that directly contradicted the AI's conclusion. Failed to find breakthrough in field (from eleven years ago in one of the top science journals) that found that plants have this feature. 3) Wrote an email, but failed to list the reagents correctly. Using this email would have required extensive editing and hunting in the paper and supplementary information on the journal's website for the correct name of each reagent.
Yes, AI is shockingly better than it was even one year ago. Does that mean it is "good enough" to determine your treatment? Who could your family sue if you were completely incapacitated as a result of the treatment? Would AI learn from being sued and the associated "costs"?
Thanks, my rant made me feel better about the importance of human minds in combining both breadth and depth of knowledge and applying them to complex endeavors.

I may be missing something... please fill me in on what that is. In the meanwhile it seems to me that the educational system as described in the article is basically claiming that up is down when they thwart a student's progress and learning, then assign low grades although the student has clearly demonstrated mastery.

I may be missing something... please fill me in on what that is. In the meanwhile it seems to me that the teachers and administrators have spent years or decades learning about education and may actually be only "so-called experts" because the educational system does not appear to delve into the topics of giftedness, and a teacher may encounter 0-3 pupils of high IQ (145+) in their career.

I may be missing something... please fill me in on what that is. In the meanwhile it appears that this quoted statement may be off-topic and not derived from this article per se.

In an attempt to make a connection to the article, it is my understanding that both teachers and those in the medical field may lose a license by failing to renew the license, misconduct at work, involvement in a criminal act, malpractice (failing to provide what students/patients needed), or committing fraud (such as by providing false credentials or falsifying records). Unfortunately, there may also be a current trend toward what is called "lawfare" or using the legal system as a weapon and conducting warfare by accusing people... as most people tend to exhaust their financial resources and are therefore unable to defend themselves fully.

But better yet, the school system would have put him into a selective school where he'd be surrounded by peers who shared his enthusiasm for learning. In that environment, he'd learn to listen to others who had also read books and thought carefully about their ideas, and he'd improve his ability to reason by being challenged by other very bright kids and (ideally) teachers. Why do we deny this essential experience to the Georgios' of the world? And why do we pretend that they can fully develop their intellects if not properly challenged?

Putting too much confidence in the University of Google gives us misinformation on every subject, from science and medicine to history to finance. I'm tired of being told I have to respect opinions based on lies and ideology. The schools need to do better, as does the media and etc. Yes, big problems.

But the answer isn't to give in and pretend that someone claiming that up is down has a valuable opinion. Nor is it reasonable to allow the claims that people who spend years or decades learning about something are only "so-called experts" who can be ignored because Dr. W said so, and besides, he's a hero whose medical license was unfairly taken by the biased Establishment.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/are-you-ready-ai-be-better-doctor-than-you-2024a100070q
Medscape Medical News
Are You Ready for AI to Be a Better Doctor Than You?
by Joe Kita
April 12, 2024

Brief excerpt:
"In a 2023 study published in the Annals of Emergency Medicine, European researchers fed the AI system ChatGPT information on 30 ER patients. Details included physician notes on the patients' symptoms, physical exams, and lab results. ChatGPT made the correct diagnosis in 97% of patients compared to 87% for human doctors."

The NAGC Tip Sheets are largely a rehash of information readers of this forum may already be familiar with, and yet it is beneficial to have the information condensed and made available in a variety of places.

https://nagc.org/page/family_tip_sheets

Related:
Here is a seasoned, crowd-sourced roundup of advocacy tips, created by parents on this forum, a decade ago:
https://giftedissues.davidsongifted...y_Advocacy_as_a_Non_Newt.html#Post183916

Forbes article

It started with an abdication of trying to find great, well-rounded students in lieu of, as admissions offices blather, a “well-rounded class” of amalgamated specialists. Weird, if well-intended, admissions policies that can actually hurt different minority groups, as the Supreme Court recently ruled, both through distorted screening and eliminating standardized tests—the best way, paradoxically, for people from under-privileged backgrounds to show they belong. (For all this effort, the Ivies still inordinately favor the rich and connected.) And then, once the students matriculate, the schools undermine the standard that otherwise makes their degrees mean anything. At America’s two most august universities, Harvard and Yale, nearly 80 percent of all undergraduates average an A or A-minus.

And guess what? Employers have figured this out. Forbes surveyed nearly 300 subscribers to its Future of Work newsletter, with three-fourths of respondents holding direct hiring authority. Among those in charge of employment decisions, 33% said they are less likely to hire Ivy League graduates than they were five years ago, with only 7% saying they were more likely to hire them.


Adds Jim Clark, who hires technologists for Kansas City’s HNTB, the nation's second largest architectural firm: “The perception of what those graduates bring has changed. And I think it’s more related to what they’re actually teaching and what they walk away with.”

Perhaps this is an indictment of all of higher education? Absolutely not. Forbes also surveyed the hirers about public university graduates and the grads of good non-Ivy private colleges, and the numbers are almost precisely the opposite of the Ivy results, with 42% saying they are more likely to hire public university grads and 37% saying they are more likely to hire grads of non-Ivy League private colleges than five years ago. Only about 5% say they are less likely to hire from either group.

“37% of those with hiring authority said state universities were doing better than five years ago in preparing job candidates.”

“Just 14% of hiring managers said the Ivy League colleges were doing better than five years ago in preparing job candidates, while 20% said they’re doing worse.”

“Being able to put yourself in someone else’s shoes is really important,” says Laura Bier, a San Diego-based management consultant specializing in healthcare and defense. “Kids who've been to a public school have had a broader diversity of friends from different backgrounds, teachers from different backgrounds and are better able to be nimble in those situations.”

It comes down to preparedness. Some 37% of those with hiring authority in our survey said state universities were doing better than five years ago in preparing job candidates and 31% thought non-Ivy League private colleges had improved. Just 14% had similar praise for the Ivy League, while 20% said they’re doing worse, making this the only segment in which negative appraisals of the trend in job readiness exceeded positive ones.