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My kids school has 6.1% of students identified gifted.
Another school in the same state, 30 miles away, has a 44.3% of students identified gifted.
How could a school have nearly half of the students be identified gifted?
What I know about the district is that it’s highly desirable, in a higher socioeconomic area, a suburb of a big city. I expect families are mostly college educated and have high incomes. I do hear a little about kids being stressed because of feeling academic pressure.
Is it accurate? Or not? Is there any advantage to identifying more kids as gifted?
Edit: adding that I looked up a few other schools that are considered highly desirable in the suburbs of the same city. Also have super high gifted ID rates in the 30s 40s percent range. The high socioeconomic level goes hand in hand with “desirable” school system. The cost of houses is more in these districts and part of that is because the desirable schools drive up the house value.
Updating to encourage others who may be interested to apply for a patent. While it is a long and sometimes difficult process, it can result in success with a patent being issued. I am now a "patentee."
I hear you. We have done a lot outside of school to support math skill and he’s set up to start accelerating next school year. He currently has gifted pull out. He’s done some math circle meetups and robotics this year. We’re not ignoring the strengths, just balancing it with other needs and interests. He shifts back and forth in his math interest. His strongest strength is visual/spatial so that helps with math, but he’s a bit more interested in how things work - mechanics, physics, chemistry, science, etc. So math will likely support his primary interests. This summer he asked me to help him work through algebra, so we have a plan for the coming months.
He has a lot to manage with a learning disability in writing and auditory processing disorders. So, getting him in college classes faster is not ideal. I’m more trying to support across all those needs so when he does get past high school he has a lot of knowledge and confidence navigating systems and knows what his needs are - both gifted & disability - and can plan for those needs and leave time for recovery. He has so many more things to manage with the contrasting skills, he needs experience, strategies and support and we’re using these years to let him navigate the school system and life with our guidance/support. People can go to college at 16 or 18 or 20 or 30 and learn throughout their lifetime… what I want is for him is to feel confident, successful and in control when he gets there. Or he might decide to do a trade like be a mechanic or electrician because he really likes 3D, hands on, physical work. Whatever he decides, I want him to be confident in navigating independently when he gets there.
For visual/spatial development, I highly recommend speedcubing, which has been very worthwhile as a pastime for DS, not only for visuospatial awareness (blindfold cubing is particularly helpful) but for finger dexterity which has served him well as a self taught musician (another example of him pursuing his interests entirely on his own terms). DS also played chess in primary school and though he did not actively compete in high school, his father, an avid chess player over the internet, shares chess puzzles with him, so he has matched strongly rated players at college.
He is currently enrolled in engineering and pivoting towards electronics, having recently been commended for the elegant layout and functionality of his FPGA and circuit chip designs, which very much draw on 3D visualisation skills.
I hear you. We have done a lot outside of school to support math skill and he’s set up to start accelerating next school year. He currently has gifted pull out. He’s done some math circle meetups and robotics this year. We’re not ignoring the strengths, just balancing it with other needs and interests. He shifts back and forth in his math interest. His strongest strength is visual/spatial so that helps with math, but he’s a bit more interested in how things work - mechanics, physics, chemistry, science, etc. So math will likely support his primary interests. This summer he asked me to help him work through algebra, so we have a plan for the coming months.
He has a lot to manage with a learning disability in writing and auditory processing disorders. So, getting him in college classes faster is not ideal. I’m more trying to support across all those needs so when he does get past high school he has a lot of knowledge and confidence navigating systems and knows what his needs are - both gifted & disability - and can plan for those needs and leave time for recovery. He has so many more things to manage with the contrasting skills, he needs experience, strategies and support and we’re using these years to let him navigate the school system and life with our guidance/support. People can go to college at 16 or 18 or 20 or 30 and learn throughout their lifetime… what I want is for him is to feel confident, successful and in control when he gets there. Or he might decide to do a trade like be a mechanic or electrician because he really likes 3D, hands on, physical work. Whatever he decides, I want him to be confident in navigating independently when he gets there.
[quote=FrameistElite][quote=millersb02] Just illustrates that there are different ways to raise gifted kids.
Yes! This is what I was trying to say. There’s lots of ways to do it. Acceleration is a viable option. It’s backed up by research. But I chose more depth and breadth b/c of my kid’s particular skill contrasts and school access. I also think a kid can accelerate and be parented as a whole person, those aren’t mutually exclusive.
(Edited)….
He also has the strengths to accelerate in math, reading or science, but we’re kinda putting one foot in front of the other, making sure he has appropriate support for disability, supporting strengths outside of school and waiting for built in acceleration opportunities within the school system).
I directed a previous post to you because my son, like yours to date, stayed with his age peers, increasing both the opportunities and imperative for them to pursue their own interests. If your DC is keen now to pursue maths interests, waiting for built in opportunities may not be the best strategy, unless he is happy and well occupied pursuing other interests, so I’ve been searching for resources in the US similar to those that my DS found useful over here.
[quote=FrameistElite][quote=millersb02] Just illustrates that there are different ways to raise gifted kids.
Yes! This is what I was trying to say. There’s lots of ways to do it. Acceleration is a viable option. It’s backed up by research. But I chose more depth and breadth b/c of my kid’s particular skill contrasts and school access. I also think a kid can accelerate and be parented as a whole person, those aren’t mutually exclusive.
Approaching my kid in an wholistic way is important to me because I think it protects mental health in the long term. Giftedness/2e is a lot to manage from a mental health standpoint. I’m always thinking about how to prioritize movement, downtime, sunlight, sleep, in real life experiences, nutrition, opportunities to play and spend time with friends, etc. Basically I’m attempting to teach my kids to prioritize the maintenance of their mental/physical resources.
Framist Elite caught that my kid was likely 2e. He is, but with more obscure differences than adhd. He’s spent a lot of the last year learning about his disabilities, learning strategies and how to use/manage assistive tech. He learns about disability like a gifted person. So, he understands his rights and accommodations and has that “heightened sense of fairness/justice” that comes with giftedness and he puts it to use to advocate for himself. Maybe he didn’t speed ahead in an academic subject this year, but he’s making big strides in self advocacy and getting support for disability in the school system. He is laying a good foundation for his own needs that should serve him well as he gets further into school/life. (He also has the strengths to accelerate in math, reading or science, but we’re kinda putting one foot in front of the other, making sure he has appropriate support for disability, supporting strengths outside of school and waiting for built in acceleration opportunities within the school system).
To the original poster: Look at your kid, look what is available, assess and make an informed decision! There are no wrong answers. As a parent you’re in the best position to look out for their best interest & make decisions based on what you currently know about your kid.
The Internet provides a huge range of maths content, as Eagle Mum explains. However, it is often significantly more difficult to self-study from the Internet than it is to learn with a competent teacher. For instance, not getting distracted by games, understanding the content/problem solving, etc.
If the stuff of logistics is too difficult, I would recommend graduating HS early and starting college early, or perhaps skipping a grade later. Taking some college classes in HS can be done concurrently - perhaps even AP/IB may allow skipping credits. As someone who used to quite like math but probably had ADHD that I compensated for to a decent extent at that age (getting away with little study/organisation, telling myself to study for a few minutes to ease myself into more studying) to the point few (Except my classmates) suspected ADHD... the self-care skills are good. However exploring interests should be limited to some extent... otherwise the kid may focus too much on interests.
But glad to hear you focus on the whole person! I follow that... just with some acceleration first (Grade skip) then work on the stuff, to save time.
Just illustrates that there are different ways to raise gifted kids.
In Yr 8, the maths HoD who was my son’s teacher told me that he had surpassed her and the rest of her faculty. From Yr 2 on, all his primary school teachers have made similar comments (often on record in his school reports), so we’ve deliberately encouraged him to be an independent learner. My daughters preferred to be guided, so as a numberphile myself, I often assumed that role.
My husband encouraged DS to play games (they often played together) and they discussed game theory and optimisation strategies with everything and by his teens, DS was bored of games and much preferred to seek better understanding of the ‘real world’.
I would mentally separate all his skills and take an inventory. Reading writing spelling math social skills speech general self confidence, self care, organization, independence… anything you can think is important for school. Are all of those skills one year or more advanced?
My kid is super advanced in certain subjects but also has lagging skills that need time to develop. So I never have asked for grade skip and school has not suggested it. I’ve asked for single subject advancement in elementary but they said one grade level bump doesn’t even do him any service because he’s several years advanced and there’s no prebuilt path to do that. (For example, you can’t take 6th grade math in 4th grade b/c 6th grade math is taught in another building. Also a super advanced 4th grade reader doesn't necessarily want to read what’s socially/emotionally appropriate for high schoolers.)
He will get math acceleration in middle school, but there’s a track to do that that’s prebuilt. with that, he’ll end up in college math classes mid high school. Skills wise that seems fine, but there’s a lot to manage logistically - different expectations, different location or online, managing 2 school systems simultaneously, exam timing, etc. That’s a lot to ask of a 16 yo that may or not be able to drive yet.
I would think about what’s available, and where that path ends. Taking college classes in high school? Graduating HS early? Starting college early? Finishing college early?
In my kid’s case we have opted to keep him with same age peers, use some gifted and acceleration options when available. Expand his learning outside of school. Going for breadth and depth rather than acceleration. He does get bored sometimes. But he also has some luxury with his free time to explore interests. We don’t have a very achievement or competitive mindset as a family, we lean more into exploring interests. And having a whole life. for example my kid has spent a lot of time baking. It’s not academic. It’s not achievement oriented. He just likes baking a cake to share with friends and family. He’ll probably use that to be a good home cook down the line. That’s as much of a win as advanced math if you’re asking me.
I would not only take an inventory but place it in the context of their likely advanced developmental level. There is a reason why ADHD assessments take into account IQ - significantly higher IQ leads to higher compensation of symptoms, or milder (or differently-presenting symptoms). Even if not all skills are 1 or more years advanced, one can still grade skip as long as they are not too bad, and academically 1+ year ahead. Though note such skill differences in organisation, self-care, as the developmental gap can indicate ADHD (though rule out other physical/mental disorders first). As my psychiatrist had keenly noted, even good attention (relative to age norms) is a deficit relative to a 98-99th% + IQ and thus is developmentally inappropriate compared to developmental level. I would also note any compensation strategies the kid has used to fix the weak areas (Pomodoro method, app blockers, etc.).
You can accelerate social development and compensate for hyperactivity/impulsivity and inattentiveness to a decent extent in various cases. This is why many ADHD teens are missed. If there are any big gaps, perhaps see a doctor or psychiatrist.
The Internet provides a huge range of maths content, as Eagle Mum explains. However, it is often significantly more difficult to self-study from the Internet than it is to learn with a competent teacher. For instance, not getting distracted by games, understanding the content/problem solving, etc.
If the stuff of logistics is too difficult, I would recommend graduating HS early and starting college early, or perhaps skipping a grade later. Taking some college classes in HS can be done concurrently - perhaps even AP/IB may allow skipping credits. As someone who used to quite like math but probably had ADHD that I compensated for to a decent extent at that age (getting away with little study/organisation, telling myself to study for a few minutes to ease myself into more studying) to the point few (Except my classmates) suspected ADHD... the self-care skills are good. However exploring interests should be limited to some extent... otherwise the kid may focus too much on interests.
But glad to hear you focus on the whole person! I follow that... just with some acceleration first (Grade skip) then work on the stuff, to save time.
I’ve asked for single subject advancement in elementary but they said one grade level bump doesn’t even do him any service because he’s several years advanced and there’s no prebuilt path to do that. (For example, you can’t take 6th grade math in 4th grade b/c 6th grade math is taught in another building. Also a super advanced 4th grade reader doesn't necessarily want to read what’s socially/emotionally appropriate for high schoolers.)
He will get math acceleration in middle school, but there’s a track to do that that’s prebuilt. with that, he’ll end up in college math classes mid high school. Skills wise that seems fine, but there’s a lot to manage logistically - different expectations, different location or online, managing 2 school systems simultaneously, exam timing, etc. That’s a lot to ask of a 16 yo that may or not be able to drive yet. .
The internet provides access to a huge range of maths content. There are lots of interesting materials in the Numberphile videos, whilst Khan academy is curriculum based. Here in Australia, the AMT, which administers the AMO to select the national team for the IMO, provides resources aimed at mathematically able students from third grade upwards. I searched MAA, the counterpart organisation in the US, which administers the USAJMO and USAMO, to look for resources for your DC, but it seems that one has to join to access the full resources (https://maa.org/audience/students-k-12/). Might be worthwhile for you and your DC to look into this.
I would mentally separate all his skills and take an inventory. Reading writing spelling math social skills speech general self confidence, self care, organization, independence… anything you can think is important for school. Are all of those skills one year or more advanced?
My kid is super advanced in certain subjects but also has lagging skills that need time to develop. So I never have asked for grade skip and school has not suggested it. I’ve asked for single subject advancement in elementary but they said one grade level bump doesn’t even do him any service because he’s several years advanced and there’s no prebuilt path to do that. (For example, you can’t take 6th grade math in 4th grade b/c 6th grade math is taught in another building. Also a super advanced 4th grade reader doesn't necessarily want to read what’s socially/emotionally appropriate for high schoolers.)
He will get math acceleration in middle school, but there’s a track to do that that’s prebuilt. with that, he’ll end up in college math classes mid high school. Skills wise that seems fine, but there’s a lot to manage logistically - different expectations, different location or online, managing 2 school systems simultaneously, exam timing, etc. That’s a lot to ask of a 16 yo that may or not be able to drive yet.
I would think about what’s available, and where that path ends. Taking college classes in high school? Graduating HS early? Starting college early? Finishing college early?
In my kid’s case we have opted to keep him with same age peers, use some gifted and acceleration options when available. Expand his learning outside of school. Going for breadth and depth rather than acceleration. He does get bored sometimes. But he also has some luxury with his free time to explore interests. We don’t have a very achievement or competitive mindset as a family, we lean more into exploring interests. And having a whole life. for example my kid has spent a lot of time baking. It’s not academic. It’s not achievement oriented. He just likes baking a cake to share with friends and family. He’ll probably use that to be a good home cook down the line. That’s as much of a win as advanced math if you’re asking me.
He has such a mixed bag of skills and interests that I have no idea where it’s going to lead. He might be a mechanic or an electrician or he might be an entrepreneur or he might be a chemist or get a phd in math. I have no idea where it’s leading. I mostly care that he feels like a whole person, is driving his own ship and has a good self image.
Acceleration has good data to back it up as an intervention strategy and it works for some. I also think the success has a bit to do with how the school would facilitate it. But wanted to throw in this differing approach.
I wouldn't simply leave him be, as often boredom can turn into resentment. Many adults significantly resent the boredom of their early years of education. I would move him to 1st grade mid-year, even if it costs significant adjustment time.
Time can be saved. His studying can be scaffolded using studying techniques available on the Internet. Spaced repetition, pomodoro method, and other things.
I would prefer to move up. From the research it seems superior to enrichment. Good luck!
It's great that you're considering all aspects of your son's education and well-being. Since he is social and loves learning, moving him to first grade mid-year could provide more challenging material and alleviate some boredom. This transition might enhance his engagement without significantly affecting his social life, especially if he adapts well to new environments. However, acceleration might require some adjustment time, so monitor his readiness and confidence. Discuss any concerns with teachers to ensure support. If keeping him with age peers, ensure the school can provide adequate enrichment. Ultimately, choose what seems best for his overall happiness and development.
It sounds like your DS could benefit from working with a writing coach or tutor who specializes in helping students with learning differences. They can teach strategies to break down the writing process and organize thoughts effectively. Executive function coaching might also be helpful, as it focuses on planning, organization, and task initiation, which seem like potential areas of challenge for him. Additionally, exploring software tools like mind mapping apps could help him visualize and organize his ideas before writing. Encouragement to use talk-to-text could also complement these strategies for overcoming initial writing barriers.
It sounds like your son is incredibly imaginative and has a natural curiosity that's driving his creativity. Balancing nurturing his unique talents while ensuring he gains necessary life skills is a challenge faced by many parents of gifted children. Here are a few suggestions that might help:
1. Integrate Learning with Play: Consider blending learning with his interests. For example, you might encourage him to write stories about his imaginative worlds, which can help with language skills. Incorporate math puzzles into his playtime with Lego or when inventing new games.
2. Project-Based Learning: Since he enjoys building and creating, you could introduce him to project-based learning. This method allows him to pursue his interests while learning to think critically and solve problems.
3. Encourage Curiosity: Keep his curiosity alive by providing opportunities to explore topics he shows interest in. This could mean trips to museums, science centers, or nature excursions that align with his imaginative stories.
4. Balance and Boundaries: While fostering creativity, it's important to establish some boundaries and teach him the importance of structure and effort in tasks that may not immediately capture his interest.
5. Social Skills Development: Since his school focuses on social skills, encouraging group play or enrolling him in clubs where he can work with peers on shared interests may be beneficial.
Ultimately, the goal is to strike a balance that allows him to thrive both creatively and academically.
It's certainly challenging to trace assessments from decades ago, but I'll try to help. In the 1980s, New Jersey schools often used a variety of tests for gifted program assessments. While E.A.S. isn't a standard abbreviation that stands out, it might refer to a specific test component or scoring system used at the time. Given the context, it could represent an "Educational Assessment Scale" or something along those lines.
The SRA scores you mentioned were common, as Science Research Associates had several popular educational assessments. It might be worth reaching out to educational psychologists or district offices from that era, as they might have insights into regional testing practices or any unique tests used at the time.
Eagle Mum - does he have ADHD or ASD? I assume he was disappointed of the grade 6 booklet as it was too easy? I suppose you could've pointed out that contemplating infinite sets of rational/irrational numbers and doing regular work are not mutually exclusive. At least he could've saved a significant amount of time. But what's done is done. And if he's happy it's fine.
No, he definitely does not have ADHD or ASD. He was just extremely focused for that age in his preschool years. He has since developed in the arts of multitasking and social interactions. He was extremely successful in high school, academically, as well as in sports and music and is at college now. Last year, as a sophomore, he was his college’s head sports coach, Div A athlete, sports rep, choir pianist, band keyboard player, chess representative, talent show winner (with blindfold speedcubing) and student council member. All whilst maintaining a perfect GPA in engineering, an active social life and working as a tutor and proofreader of commercial maths resources (he’s been employed since age 14 because his focus enabled him to find mistakes that more mature proofreaders missed). We have no regrets - the path we let him choose for himself, at our local public school, allowed him freedom to self develop.
For a few years, he did a modified version of ‘regular work’. After mastering the multiplication tables in kindergarten, for the next couple of years, he completed the same sheets as his classmates in Roman numerals, binary, in other number bases and with spelling, his teacher got him to choose twenty words each week from the dictionary instead of learning from the standard list (all of which he could already spell, define and use appropriately), but by Yr 4, he was well and truly beyond the primary school syllabus and the teaching staff recognised this and gave him a lot of time on the class computers for self directed learning.
WRT to OP’s choice of school options, in this digital age, kids can access resources without the school needing to provide it. There was no robotics club at our local primary school, but DS had already taught himself programming with free Python and other programs, so the P & C committee asked him to run a robotics club during lunchtime. Unfortunately, he declined because it would have reduced the time he had to play handball, but the point is, there are options to implement new things if there is the need and desire.
Advocating for gifted children can be challenging, especially in areas with limited resources. Here are some suggestions to consider:
1. Individualized Learning Plans: Request personalized learning plans that challenge your children in their areas of strength and interest.
2. Enrichment Opportunities: Ask for enrichment programs or projects, possibly with mentorship from teachers, to keep them engaged.
3. Flexible Grouping: Encourage the school to allow flexible grouping in subjects where your children excel, so they can work with peers at similar levels.
4. Professional Development: Request additional teacher training to better accommodate and challenge gifted students.
5. Social-Emotional Support: Seek support for social struggles, perhaps with guidance from a counselor who understands the needs of gifted children.
6. Advanced Coursework: If possible, discuss opportunities for accessing higher-grade level materials or classes.
7. Parental Collaboration: Stay involved and offer to collaborate with teachers to support your children's education both at school and at home.
For your daughter, closely monitor her progress and advocate early for any signs she might also benefit from similar support.
Both options have their merits, but considering your son's interests in engineering and need for peer interaction, Option 2 might be a better choice. The school’s robotics team could offer a great outlet for his interests, and a classroom dedicated to high-performing students may provide the challenge he needs. Despite the dingy facilities, a more robust PTA funding could mean better resources and extracurricular activities. However, you might want to visit both schools again and engage with other parents to get a better feel for the community and environment before making a decision.
