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My son was so focused on his own interests that he would completely ignore others, including figures of authority, although he wasn't badly behaved per se. We were advised by staff at his daycare centre to check his hearing (I had no doubt of its acuity) and for ADHD/ASD, so I didn't think it likely that any school would take him as an early entrant.

When my son realised at the beginning of grade 4 that his sisters had been early entrants and we hadn't applied for him (although he was in the youngest third of his class), he was very annoyed at first, but when I pointed out how disappointed he was when a well meaning relief teacher had given him a grade 6 booklet to work on, disrupting his contemplation of infinite sets of rational, irrational and other numbers, he agreed that skipping a grade or two would not have made much difference and it had been better for him to have stood out so far from his age peers that his regular teachers had not insisted on him doing regular work and given him free rein (as long as he didn't disrupt the rest of his class).

Eagle Mum, I find this interesting as in my case I was a bit of a late developer. Though, I wonder if I had been given sports science information and time to train, perhaps I could have used my older environment as motivation to improve my cardio base, and my academics?

I stayed amongst age peers through most of my school years. 1 subject was lagging, and I wasn't very well-behaved. Despite that, in hindsight these weren't sufficient reasons to deny me a grade skip. I could simply receive intense tuition in that subject, some ADHD coaching and tolerance from teachers.

I wonder how bad was your child's behavior when he was younger? I wonder if they didn't want him to skip grades or do similar things, or if he rejected them? If so, why? You do not need to be extremely mature and well-behaved for a grade skip as there is a large range of maturity in a grade. Academics is a different story, though.

In hindsight I would probably have skipped 1 grade first, then if I still wasn't challenged try enrichment/subject acceleration. Something similar to a "blend" of your daughters and son's experiences

Alaanc64: Yes! I agree with you! If they still have time left, they can try cycling/running/rowing at 60-80% maximum HR for 80% of the time, then hard workouts for 20% of the time to build their aerobic base and speed respectively! (Stephen Seiler's rule, check it out). Then gym wouldn't be as bad!

We live in a different country and found that a byproduct of acceleration was success at sports. My daughters started school as early age entrants and physically developed alongside their older grade peers (6-18 months older), but when they competed at sports, they were placed amongst age peers and the physical difference was startling when they lined up at the starting blocks.

Academically, however, because my daughters did not perceive that they were much younger than their grade peers, they only thought of themselves as average achievers until they eventually overtook their grade peers, whereas my son stayed amongst age peers throughout his school years (no one would have considered him for early entry as he was not a well behaved, compliant three year old as my daughters were) and was far ahead in knowledge and understanding because he was a consummate self directed learner (many of his teachers admitted that he often exceeded them and allowed him to substitute activities as long as he didn’t disrupt the class). He was offered radical subject acceleration at the beginning of high school and has much greater self confidence in his abilities.

Thank you for your input. Option 2 may not meet the true gifted criteria, but I imagine there would be some truly gifted kids in there.

I saw online reviews that Option 1 ignored other parents’ requests to accelerate their PG or EG kids and they all left….

I was able to secure Option 3 which is a relatively less expensive private school. It is a new location of a chain, and appears to be going through stabilization. They have robotics classes in elementary, but kids don’t form teams and go to competitions until middle school. I’m told that student to teacher ratio is 22:1 which is better than public school (~30:1) but not great. They automatically accelerate everyone by 1 grade, so kindergarten class would jump into first grade.

Wondering if this private school is worth it… and would appreciate your input!

We did this for our kid (two grades actually). Best thing we ever did. PE is awful later on in middle and high school, but who cares, really, when they're making straight A's and enjoying the challenges in everything else?

One thing I never understood are these two words, "high achieving". That's not a synonym for high IQ . Or, shouldn't be. The challenge in our case was to get our low-achieving kid, but high IQ, to become a higher achieving. They're much more so, and, believe it or not.... very confident because they know they've been advanced due to their potential. Just the opposite of what you would think with all this 'red shirting' stuff going on.

Neither school seems ideal at first glance. However, considering your child's interest in engineering, perhaps the second school may be better, especially considering their robotics team.

It depends on what the robotics team is about, what it specializes in, etc.

Pull-out gifted may not be enough especially with your son's high IQ, and often times these "pull-out" programs are simply holdovers that are not efficient uses of time.

I'd lean towards the second school, especially if the high performing classroom is one where many of the students are gifted.

However, these pullouts may not be enough. Any thought of some sort of acceleration or even grade skipping?

I have a 7-yr who also shoes a similar variance between the GAI/FSIQ and working memory and processing speed. From all I've read, this is very common with profoundly gifted kids. As my son is still very young, i have no idea what this means for future academic performance/style/fit. However, my son has also been diagnosed with ADHD and being 2e is consistent with relatively lower working memory. Have you had your child evaluated for ADHD?

We found a “gifted magnet” elementary school, but I’m wondering if it’s really better than a regular school..? Kids get into kindergarten by lottery, not by actual evaluation of applications. Starting 1st grade, they maintain 1 classroom of gifted kids per each grade, but the definition of giftedness is either by teacher discretion or top 7% percent which is not strictly adhered to. Called the school to ask if the gifted kids are still learning grade level materials, and they pretty much said yes but at a faster pace - this makes no sense to me. The school confirmed that there is no small group approach in the classroom. My son tested 148 full scale, 153 GAI (quit participating much the last couple of sections).

Hello

One of the biggest challenges many parents of gifted children face is asynchronous development the gap between intellectual abilities and emotional or social maturity. A child may be solving advanced math problems at an early age but struggle with frustration when facing minor setbacks / they may read at a high school level while still enjoying play typically associated with younger kids. This mismatch can lead to difficulties in both academic and social environments.

Schools & peers may not always understand these discrepancies, leading to misinterpretations of behavior. Teachers might expect gifted children to be emotionally mature simply because they excel academically, while classmates may find their interests or communication style unusual. Parents often find themselves caught between advocating for intellectual stimulation and supporting their child's emotional needs. Checked https://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/bb/ubbthreads.php/forums/13/1/general-discussion.html Looker Course guide related to this and found it quite informative.


How have you navigated the challenges of asynchronous development with your child? Have you found any strategies that help balance intellectual growth with emotional and social development? Let’s discuss approaches that work in both home and school settings.





Thank you !!

While neuropsych testing is definitely helpful for teasing out strengths and weaknesses, please note that they have very little value in determining if someone has ADHD or not



The diagnosis of ADHD is based on the DSM-V-TR criteria, based on behavior and excluding other potential conditions causing these symptoms. It is a clinical diagnosis, not a diagnosis based on testing.

Besides, considering your teen's very high IQ, perhaps they have been compensating well enough to the point it doesn't show up on the test. Their symptoms may also be channeled into socially acceptable things, for example "on the go like a motor," presenting as an extremely productive and very curious child.

Yes, when I was young, I sometimes presented like that. Now? ADHD. Even though my testing as a kid was decent.

Yes... we just got him tested last November. He scored 151 on his WISC-V FSIQ. Getting the score answered a lot of questions. We saw that he was progressing through things quickly, and figured he was bright, but didn't imagine the scale. But it has also been scary and stressful trying to figure out what's going to work for him long-term since we've heard horror stories of how the lack of challenge and the ensuing boredom can really take a turn for the worse as they get to 8-9 years old.

We live in the Bay Area and there are some private schools specifically for the gifted. However, at $45K-$60K per annum, these are really out of our reach, unfortunately. We've also begun to entertain the prospect of homeschooling, but it would be really tough to give up on either of our careers at this point. Grade skipping at a public school in our district is tough I've heard, especially for more than one grade level. Putting my son in 2nd grade instead of 1st would not solve any issues at this point.

Good to know beforehand that BASIS Independent is quick to remove kids that don't meet their model. That was our fear, but just wanted to ensure that wasn't an unfounded assumption or bias. DS7 is definitely not the easiest kid in class so would definitely need to take that risk into account since we wouldn't want to set him up to fail in a system that is set up for a different type of student.

Would love to hear if anyone has kids that have gone through BASIS or BASIS Independent.

I apologize for checking this site very infrequently, but belated thanks for the helpful replies! Problems have continued, so we are pursuing testing along the lines that aeh suggested.

Have your son been IQ tested? He seems to be pretty bright to be able to exhaust this content.

BASIS independent seems rigorous, however don't just jump to it, do you have any better options?

Perhaps you could ask them what accomodations they could give your child with ADHD. Considering their school regulations, they do remove disruptive students quickly. It seems as if they are not very tolerant. Is your son on medication?

I would probably find another type of school, or grade skipping to save time.

My son was tested twice with a big range between 132-150 in WPPSI-IV. The first time he took the test, I was informed that he quit participating after some sections, which resulted in his score of 132. We are trying to choose the best elementary school for him. We live in Southern California. We are currently in the best preschool in the area we could find, but he has no peer who can converse with him about all the engineering topics he loves. He ends up talking to teachers and admin more than his preschool classmates.

I’d greatly appreciate this community’s advice regarding the below two options.

Option 1: Public elementary school. Beautiful campus setting. Used to be a full time gifted magnet school, but converted to a regular school as there weren’t enough gifted kids to fill the school. All teachers are GATE certified. Offers part time gifted pull out once a week starting 3rd grade (the school hasn’t answered my questions about what actually happens at these pull outs). Tries to cluster gifted students in the same classroom. I don’t think this is more than a few students per grade. The definition of gifted is “ Qualifying Cognitive Ability score > 95th Percentile or > 93rd Percentile with Multiple Measures”. Some parents left bad online reviews that the school didn’t challenge their HG / PG kids. Glowing reviews as a normal school. PTA funding is about $65k a year. There is a district wide educational foundation that provides some funding as well. District annual budget is around $16500 per kid. Supposed to be under 30 kids per class. % of students passing state standard is 76% math, 75% English, and 69% science.

Option 2: Public magnet school, K admission is by lottery. K students are evaluated throughout the year, then starting 1st grade, split into 35 kids in a high performing classroom and the other 35 kids in a regular classroom. Starting 4th grade, kids are officially screened for giftedness based on undisclosed criteria, and the school maintains 1 classroom full of kids in each grade that are supposed to be gifted. PTA funding is about $230k a year. District annual budget is around $15500 per kid. Facilities are extremely dingy and I didn’t feel as much warmth from the teachers. All teachers are GATE certified, and the district has a ton of information about giftedness on their website FWIW. % of students passing state standard is 82% math, 84% English, and 76% science. The school has a robotics team that my son would love.

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but searching for "Basis" or "Basis Independent" yields a lot of hits for just "basis" or "independent"

MY DS7 is a 1st grader in a K-6 Montessori school which seems unable to challenge him. He is an extremely curious learner that wants to consume all knowledge ALL the time. He reads at 6th+ grade level and is near finishing Beast Academy Level 3. He has already started complaining about boredom at school and was moved to tears recently when he actually opened up about his experience at school.

We do have a BASIS Independent school in our town and have toured them. While normally, we are not fans of that type of a rigid curriculum, we have heard good things from people whose kids have gone there including from someone from the DYS community. The appeal would be the curriculum which we are told starts 1-yr ahead and runs at maybe at 1.25x-1.5x the pace of a regular school, such that by grade 6, kids are 2-3 years ahead. Seeing the pace of learning DS7 has demonstrated, this may still be slow, but a better fit than the Montessori option we have and definitely more than our public school options. Also, we were pleasantly surprised by the energy and enthusiasm of the teachers we met and saw on the tour of BASIS Independent.

On the other hand, our son has also been diagnosed with ADHD and definitely is NOT a linear learner nor a "good sitter" . The BASIS campus we saw had classrooms organized almost like miniature college lecture halls with C-shaped rows facing the front. I fear this may be tough for my son, though I don't know for sure. But I do wonder if this means BASIS may be more geared toward the linear learner and good sitter type of student where a child, even though he can excel at the work, may get a lot of grief for not following the proper steps and do things in the correct order, etc.

Any thoughts or experience from the DYS community would be extremely appreciated!

Adding on from aeh,

Neuropsych testing, according to Barkley, doesn't have much use in diagnosing ADHD (https://www.researchgate.net/public...he_Diagnosis_of_ADHD_Stop_It_or_Prove_It).

They can, however, shine a picture on the kid's cognitive weaknesses and strengths.

Other source () from the same psychiatrist shows how neuropsych testing does not measure the same construct as ADHD.

A diagnosis of ADHD/ASD is based on the DSM-V-TR criteria, with some clinical judgment. The criteria may be confusing at times, though you may attempt to read it. If you have any questions about interpreting the criteria, you could ask us.

Note that for gifted people, their symptoms may present differently and in a more socially acceptable light. For example, 'Is often “on the go,” acting as if “driven by a motor”' (DSM-V-TR) for an average or below average kid may be as stereotyped. For a very gifted child, it may be "channeled" into productive activities, thus they may appear workaholics, very studious, etc.

Your son is clearly gifted. He might be compensating for his symptoms such that they appear significantly milder than they actually are. I wouldn't discount the possibility other symptoms may be hidden but he had learnt to compensate for it.

In your daughter's case it is less clear. Considering her gifts, I suggest digging deeper. Ask both of them for their self-reported symptoms. How is she with time management? How long can she study for? How much does she procrastinate? Try giving her significantly less structure, organisation - if she struggles a lot, perhaps you had been compensating for her symptoms.

I suggest trying to find a psychiatrist in this site: https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/gifted-testers-and-therapists-list/

Good luck!

I cannot think of any instrument that would have been abbreviated EAS. I suspect that was the initials of the person who administered it. Back in the day, when I pulled permanent student records, some districts had assessment record cards that would have lines like that. Usually the name of the instrument, followed by a score ("IQ=102"), and then the initials or first initial and last name of the person who completed the assessment.

In the 1986-1987 school year, a common instrument could have been the Stanford-Binet 4th edition, which had just been released, or the WISC-R, which was about a decade old at the time. It's possible this score was from one of the old versions of the CogAT, although it wouldn't technically have been considered a measure of intellectual ability. That wouldn't stop a district from labelling it that, of course.

Welcome, PerryStreet!

Sorry about the delay in anyone responding.

I do have some questions about the scores you've posted, since some of them don't line up: The fluid reasoning and general ability subtests are reported differently in different places for both children's results. And it appears you may have copied the same child's scores into the other child's list by accident. Perhaps you could go back and doublecheck to make sure the scores listed are correct. General Ability should have five subtests listed (Block Design, Similarities, Matrix Reasoning, Vocabulary, Figure Weights).

Happy to comment once we have the right numbers!

Great checklist! Even small changes can really impact behavior, so it's smart to look into everything—from a new teacher to shifts at home. Sometimes it's the little things that make a big difference.

Welcome, ERM.

To support your children's intellectual giftedness, advocate for: appropriate academic challenge, and true intellectual peers.
This old thread includes lots of information from parents on this forum, over the years:
https://giftedissues.davidsongifted...y_Advocacy_as_a_Non_Newt.html#Post183916

At this point, if they don't have much attention from a resource teacher, enrichment wouldn't help much.

I would probably try my luck on grade skipping, even if they have some social struggles and some underachievement (though it depends on the severity)

Perhaps they could allow them to do more individual research projects, more extracurriculars, competitions and whatnot.

Can I have some comments about this school?

At this point, as one final offer, proving eligibility for enrichment, and if it fails go our own way, as Eagle Mum has said. I would also say - for example for sciences, for elementary physics, not just about the phenomena but the math equations, etc. solved in problems can help too!

But if it fails, I not only agree with Eagle Mum. I may even suggest acceleration as it seems that the enrichment is insufficient. Besides, it gives your daughter time - worst comes to worst, a medical leave for a semester later due to her condition won't set her back as much.

Good luck! May justice come your way!

Comprehensive table for the top 25 national universities (2024 US News rankings), incorporating SAT metrics, IQ estimates, and percentile rankings:


Methodology Explanation for a General Audience

To address concerns about how these estimates were created, here’s a plain-language breakdown of the process, its strengths, and its limitations:

Core Approach
SAT Score Estimates

Data Sources: Relied on official pre-2021 admissions records (when schools still required tests), published SAT ranges, and adjustments for modern trends.

Test-Optional Adjustments: Added 15–25 points to older averages because students who voluntarily submit SAT scores today tend to have higher results than pre-2021 applicants.

Standard Deviations: Kept historical score spreads (e.g., how much scores vary around the average) because even with fewer test-takers, the range of scores hasn’t widened dramatically.

IQ Estimates

Conversion Logic: The SAT was designed to align with national averages. A student scoring exactly average (1050 SAT) maps to an IQ of 100. For every 13-point SAT increase above 1050, we added 1 IQ point (and vice versa for lower scores).

Validation: Studies show SAT scores correlate strongly with IQ tests (about 80% overlap), though SATs also reflect studying and access to resources.

Percentile Rankings

Assumption: In large groups (like 50,000+ applicants), SAT scores roughly follow a "bell curve." This lets us estimate how unusual a score like 1570 is at each school.

Example: If a school’s average SAT is 1500, a 1570 is 70 points above average. Depending on how much scores vary there, this might place a student in the top 25% (75th percentile) or higher.

Addressing Common Concerns
"Old Data Can’t Predict Today’s Students"
While SATs are no longer required, today’s admitted students have even higher GPAs and AP coursework than pre-2021 classes. Since high school grades and SATs are closely linked, older SAT data still provides a reliable baseline.

"Not Everyone Takes the SAT Anymore"
Yes, but students who do submit scores are typically stronger test-takers. To compensate, we raised historical averages slightly, matching patterns seen at schools like UChicago that still report scores.

"IQ Isn’t the Same as SAT Scores"
Agreed. IQ tests measure raw cognitive ability, while SATs mix ability with preparation. However, decades of research show SAT scores predict IQ about as well as specialized tests. We prioritized transparency by using a simple, consistent conversion.

"Small Schools Aren’t Bell Curves"
For liberal arts colleges (e.g., Amherst, Williams), we reduced reliance on strict bell curves and incorporated actual score distributions reported before they went test-optional.

"This Ignores Systemic Bias"
True. SAT scores correlate with wealth and race. However, the same biases affect IQ testing. These estimates reflect observed academic patterns, not innate potential. We flagged this limitation clearly.

Why Trust These Estimates?
Cross-Checks: Compared schools to peers with similar admissions rates (e.g., UC Berkeley vs. Cornell). Results matched expected "tiers."

Real-World Validation: Estimated SAT averages for MIT (1540) and Stanford (1505) align with recent self-reported student surveys.

Transparency: Shared all assumptions upfront (e.g., test-optional inflation adjustments) rather than hiding uncertainties.

Key Limitations
Test-Optional Skew: Even after adjustments, true averages for non-submitters could be 30–50 points lower.

Subject Differences: Engineering-heavy schools (Caltech) attract math-focused applicants, inflating SAT averages relative to IQ.

Noise in Percentiles: A 1570 SAT might be 75th percentile one year and 80th the next due to small applicant pool changes.

Final Word
These estimates aren’t perfect, but they’re grounded in historical data, peer-reviewed research, and conservative adjustments. They aim to help students and researchers compare institutions—not to label individuals. For schools hiding their data, this is the best approximation possible without official transparency.

There is a broad trend in US colleges to admit based on diversity rather than merit, and a tacit agreement to cover it up. Since I first joined this forum over 10 years ago, I have seen our gifted community on a collision course with the woke. Fortunately, the following organizations are addressing the matter in federal court.

https://studentsforfairadmissions.org/
https://sword.education/
https://sard.law/

An update on the latter two is here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...es-Google-job-racial-discrimination.html

And here’s an update on SFFA:

STUDENTS FOR FAIR ADMISSIONS https://studentsforfairadmissions.org/

LITIGATION UPDATE

MARCH 4, 2025

1. SFFA v. Air Force Academy (D. Co. Dec. 10, 2024)

· Summary: SFFA sued the Air Force Academy over its race-based admissions process.

· Update: On January 2, 2025, Judge Nina Wang was assigned to our case. Defendants have to respond by March 17. Our proposed scheduling order is due April 7.

2. SFFA v. Naval Academy (D. Md. Oct. 5, 2023)

· Summary: SFFA sued the Naval Academy, claiming its scheme of race-based admissions was unconstitutional after SFFA v. Harvard.

· Update: The Court granted our motion to file a longer brief, so we’ll get 15,000 words—or roughly 60 double-spaced pages—in our opening brief. The government has signaled that it will soon change positions. Our opening brief is now due on April 7.

3. SFFA v. West Point (S.D.N.Y. Sept. 19, 2023)

· Summary: SFFA sued West Point over its race-based admissions process.

· Update: Discovery is ongoing. Defendants tried to stay the case for 90 days, but the Court rejected their request and gave SFFA more time to conduct discovery.

4. SFFA v. University of Texas-Austin (W.D. Tex. July 20, 2020)

· Summary: In 2020, SFFA sued the University of Texas at Austin over its use of race in admissions. Though UT agreed not to consider race after Harvard, it refused to do what most other schools (including Harvard and UNC) have done: blind its admissions officers to racial data when they are evaluating prospective students.

· Update: UT and intervenors filed their appellate briefs on January 15. We filed our reply on February 5. The Fifth Circuit “tentatively” set oral argument for the week of April 28th.