Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
One question-- is it fundamentally cruelty?

I think that familiarity probably plays an integral role there-- kids who have not ever seen animals from farm-to-plate probably feel that such an existence is inevitably cruelty.

Kids who have seen it know that isn't inherently the case-- at least not from the animal's perspective. That, I think, is some mash-up of cognitive ability, empathy, and maturity-- the ability to take a non-human perspective like that. Which then means that we as humans have to decide whether or not we SHOULD feel guilty for eating animals, assuming that the animal probably doesn't much care either way, given a reasonably happy and humane existence otherwise.
I think that this ultimately comes back to your earlier post. My phililosophical outlook is that all sentient creatures have something equivalent to what Christians would consider a soul and that, regardless of intellect, they have the desire to live and, as such, it is not my right to end their lives regardless of how humanely. In other words, the animal does care whether it lives or dies.

For instance, I take a lot of my direction from quotes in the Dhammapada such as, "every living being fears death. Therefore, knowing this, feeling for others as for yourself, do not kill others or cause others to kill. Every living being fears being struck by a rod. Life being dear to all. Therefore, knowing this, feeling for others as for yourself, do not kill or cause others to kill.

I do think that it is such a personal interpretation, though. For instance, one of George Bush's speech writers, who is devoutly Christian, wrote a book called Dominion in which he interprets the bible to instruct Christians to be vegetarian, whereas other Christians, I'm sure do not interpret the dominion over animals in the bible to mean that.

It also is not a romantizication of the natural world and the way animals die there either in our instance. I live in a semi-rural area with a lot of foxes, raptors, and other preditors. I know that life and death in the natural world isn't pretty and easy. It is more that my path leads me toward minimizing my personal contribution to that suffering where I can.

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Not all kids are (emotionally) capable of withstanding the acquisition of the data here, however. Some are, and some aren't. My DD doesn't like watching rabbits being butchered, but she's seen it and it hasn't had much impact on her relative enthusiasm for bunny enchiladas.

My dh as well. His father was a butcher and he went to slaughter houses with him as a child and saw the live cows going in one end and the meat coming out the other. He saw his grandfather raise and kill rabbits. I wonder, actually, if exposure to things of that sort at an early age might have one of two effects on someone: becoming vegetarian or just seeing it as natural and not awful.

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There is a component which is down to possible anthropomorphism versus pragmatism, as well. Few people truly see trout and border collies as being completely interchangeable on the sentience and cognition scale if they are familiar with both animals in a non-theoretical sense...

Now, from a philosophical angle, I understand the argument that all sentient beings should have autonomy... but I don't overestimate the ability of a goldfish, nor underestimate the ability of a horse or goat. Rabbits are just not as intelligent as pigs, nor are they as thoughtful; ergo, while rabbits are just as deserving of respectful husbandry (and maybe MORE in need of parental care, in some ways, given their inability to care for themselves), I can eat them far more readily than a pig.
I am quite familiar with the levels of intelligence of various animals. As I mentioned, I live in a semi-rural area. I've been around pigs, cows, sheep, and other farm animals a good bit. I volunteer at our local humane society where we have everything from pet type of animals to wildlife that are being rehabbed. For me, the level of intelligence of the animal makes no difference in its being, right to life, or desire to live. Heck, I even catch wasps in the house and put them outside! I know that they are not the same as my super smart herding dogs, but I would not kill them any more than I would view a developmentally disabled human as being less desiring of life than a genius.

I'm truly not judging your different perspective, just trying to explain mine.