Originally Posted by CFK
As to those of you with young children who are very accelerated now and you think that you can delay college until 18 - good luck with that! That appetitie for learning doesn't fade away. In our experience it gets stronger every year. I had plans of gap years, fifth years of high school, etc. My son did not.

Exactly. It has been a Herculean effort to keep DD from college this long, to be blunt. We have deliberately deprived her of some exposures because that surface 'skimming' is only likely to ruin her for the deeper exposure, and it won't really satisfy her anyway. Those with kids who haven't gone through high school recently may not understand what I mean, there. Let me explain.

Originally Posted by I'm just sticking this into a quote box so that it doesn't hog up space
My DD is, in fact, way ahead of most of her peers across the board-- in any area where she has had exposure, I mean. We supply her with college level textbooks and she eats them up. Current obsessions include the historical development of psychology and sociology, musical instrument acoustics, neurology, and poetry forms. Oh, and literature, which is sort of a given with her. She has been pretty hungry for deeper learning experiences for 4-6 years now, and we've indulged it via afterschooling-- in areas where she isn't likely to encounter the subject later in a mandatory course somewhere. She is being raised by two experienced college advisors, after all. wink

She actually UNDERSTANDS the AP Physics B course that she's taking, and completely retains what she learns, which, if you check out the discussions that Val and I have had about that class, is kind of astonishing in any high school student-- regardless of age. Again, it's because of the limitations of her school environment that we opted to have her take physics but not chemistry (well, and also because quite frankly, we didn't think that the chemistry teacher was actually qualifed to teach our DD that material-- more on that in a moment), plus we wanted her to have an actual laboratory experience.

She can be highly autodidactic, but it's very spotty and idiosyncratic. Not exactly a good way to establish a foundation for further study.

The professors that DD talked with did go through the three-or-four year plan with her on paper as to math coursework. They know that she aspires to a grad program-- there was some discussion of doing a 5y M.S. program there.

I understand the cautions being expressed in Bostonian and CFK's posts, but for my own DD, she will tolerate one run through "learning" calculus, and it had better be a good one, because remediative instruction is something that she tolerates very ill... and that's a gross understatement. She's a mastery learner, and high school is NOT set up for kids like her. High school now is just a continuation of K-8. It's more spiraling, more 'skimming' the surface, and more test-prep. Sad, but true.

She will earn college credit next year for both English Composition and for Intro to Statistics. We've deliberately NOT had her earn credit via AP examinations because that isn't why she's taking AP courses. She needs NO help graduating from college any earlier. But she definitely needed more challenging material. She will-- probably-- place out of lower-division coursework in many, many areas as a college freshman. We just don't want her to accumulate CREDITS while doing it. It's an asynchrony/maturity issue, and our logic is exactly like 22B's here-- we want to narrow that gap any way we can.

Hiring a tutor is a reasonable idea-- might have DD put out some feelers this summer in her internship and see if she can connect with an math/stats grad student locally who'd be willing. The reason why I'm willing to teach her stats but not precalc/calc is the same one that Colinsmum alluded to-- my background supports stats. I know it inside and out. I know precalc/calc about as well as a good student who has taken the courses and done very well at mastering the material in them. That's not always good enough with DD-- this is the other problem that we (increasingly) had with the math instruction at the high school level-- knowing what's IN the book/course is one thing, but knowing the subject inside and out is actually needed for kids that interact with the subject in ways which are beyond the scope of the class, but evidently necessary for them to scaffold the material.

THIS is why my DD has such trouble being an autodidact for some subjects. She needs the interaction with an actual subject expert that understands far MORE than what is in the book. I can do that with stats, but not with calculus. She has trouble with any teacher who isn't a subject expert because of the way she learns.

I'm very frustrated by this situation; her school won't actually teach the kids math in a meaningful way, and her dad doesn't have the time/inclination. His background is MORE than up to the task. Mine isn't. But he refuses to sacrifice his free time to do it. mad


Originally Posted by CFK again
Yes as to what Bostonian wrote. My son started taking grad courses his first semester as a freshman because he was so far ahead of the game going into college. He will complete his BS in three years but will have over 15 grad courses on his transcript by that time (if all goes as scheduled). Grad school competition can be fierce. There are far fewer spots than for undergrad. And even fewer that are funded.

Edited to add:

Suggestion for HK or anyone else in the same situation: go thru the college course schedule and plan out the three years. See exactly how many course she can fit in to that schedule (keeping in mind that not all schools offer all courses every semester). See if your child is where he/she needs to be at the end of that time in order to get where he/she wants to go after.

REALLY great advice-- secondly, I'd add that a minor in a laboratory science is a great way to ensure better FUNDING for grad school. That way, you can be a lab TA even if you aren't in the department. This was common where I was a grad student, because the Gen Chem machine had to be fed, and there were simply never enough Chem students willing to take on a third lab section-- we had physics, math, mat-sci and vet-med students teaching lab sections all the time. Now, it didn't come with a tuition waiver, of course, the way it did for our own majors, but it was certainly better than nothing!

Also keep in mind your child's tolerance for repetition, and be on the lookout for it. If you have a child like mine that doesn't tolerate it, craft mastery into preparatory material. AP coursework is NOT college level; at least not for anyone who isn't fairly autodidactic and in possession of an expert human resource. It's that skimming thing again. AP Chem in high school is NOT the equivalent of Gen Chem. Unfortunately, as noted above, K-12 education practices are hardly on your side there. If you're serious about a subject, actually take the college course somehow. For HG+ kids, it'll be much more meaningful and closer to their needs. That's my advice.

Higher ed = mastery model, particularly in STEM. Frequently it all fits together like a puzzle-box with a trick lid, with each course needing to come in a particular order because of how things scaffold on one another conceptually. That is VERY different from the reality of K-12 pedagogy. It's why so many institutions really don't have a lot of respect for AP credits-- other than as an indicator of who the brightest kids are.

Individual plan. Yes. smile




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