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    Originally Posted by Syler
    I think my problem is mainly that I have an insatiable need for stimulating conversation and I often say things that while correct, might make others feel stupid. they might actually be "the right answer", that somehow isn't the same as saying the right thing.
    . � ��
    I re-worded your post because I'll bet that's more accurate. �I used to describe my "other-ness" by saying that as a child I learned how to find the truth, but I was never taught the deception. �Obviously, some people loved me to death for that (some couldn't be around me because higher thoughts are contagious). �But I couldn't integrate into a certain social something I saw, even among my friends who loved me dearly and begged me never to change for no-one. �
    Sorry for the delay, I had the post half-written when the hubby walked in the door with food in his hand <3.
    as I was saying, don't look for ways to come across as dumbed-down. �Think of learning a new skill where you learn how to say the right thing, not the right answer. �


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    Syler Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by La Texican
    Originally Posted by Syler
    I think my problem is mainly that I have an insatiable need for stimulating conversation and I often say things that while correct, might make others feel stupid. they might actually be "the right answer", that somehow isn't the same as saying the right thing.
    . � ��
    I re-worded your post because I'll bet that's more accurate. �I used to describe my "other-ness" by saying that as a child I learned how to find the truth, but I was never taught the deception. �Obviously, some people loved me to death for that (some couldn't be around me because higher thoughts are contagious). �But I couldn't integrate into a certain social something I saw, even among my friends who loved me dearly and begged me never to change for no-one. �
    Sorry for the delay, I had the post half-written when the hubby walked in the door with food in his hand <3.
    as I was saying, don't look for ways to come across as dumbed-down. �Think of learning a new skill where you learn how to say the right thing, not the right answer. �

    I understand what you are saying. The problem with always trying to say the right thing is that it isn't genuine and that meaningful relationships are seldom built from dishonesty.

    Now of course I try to be mindful of people's feelings. I'm not totally socially inept. I just find that over time, it always creeps through. Perhaps it isn't even what I say but how I say it. I have been ridiculed for using words people didn't understand and even for simply being too articulate. Then there is the boredom I experience around most people and pain I experience listening to them. And of course there are those dreaded ideas of mine that just seem weird to most people. Maybe I should just stop expecting people to get it.

    Last edited by Mark Dlugosz; 08/18/10 09:40 AM.
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    Syler, this seems like a sad state of affairs...

    People don't want to listen to you, and you don't want to listen to them...

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    Syler Offline OP
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    Originally Posted by Cathy A
    Syler, this seems like a sad state of affairs...

    People don't want to listen to you, and you don't want to listen to them...

    That about sums it up. In fact a couple experts I saw told me I should expect that problem unless I make an effort to associate with people more like myself.

    Unfortunately, I have little exposure to such people. I guess that is why I am here.

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    Okay, so what kind of people would be suitable?

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    I only vaguely remember thinking about things. �Most of my day I only speak with a toddler. �"baby, I know you're just learning about pretend. �You pretend to give me cakes and cookies, and you pretend about monsters and giants. �So I don't know if you're going to get this but you shouldn't pretend somebody else broke a rule to try to get them in trouble."
    Really. �That's the deepest philosophical conversation I've had lately. �The Gifted Haven looks like a great forum, but it's made by and for teenagers (who are now college freshmen). �But I remember a few old folks hanging around us when we were teenagers at the Promenade. �Nobody cared or ran them off as long as they felt and acted like they belonged there. �These kids at the Haven look pretty level-headed so they probably have the same policy. �Just giving you a heads up they're half your age. �I found the forum a few days ago, been reading it because the sweet little perspective of youth is refreshing. �And I sent a link to my brother and sister who are still in that age group.


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    Originally Posted by Syler
    Then there is the boredom I experience around most people and pain I experience listening to them.

    This strikes me as exactly the problem. Of course if you feel this way it will eventually show up in how you act, and no one wants to be around someone who finds them boring and thinks that listening to them is painful. FWIW, I find people to be fascinating, and I can enjoy listening to almost anyone talk about almost anything. So I don't think that you can reasonably blame this entirely on your intelligence.

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    Syler,

    I have to wonder about your location. Do you live in a rural area? Perhaps you really are in a situation where you are surrounded by the wrong people. I live in an urban small city but with a huge university. I also live in an upper middle class community. I'm not saying one has to have money to be intelligent but I've noticed the level of intelligence in this area is higher than usual and I suspect that is mostly due to the size of the university here.

    Anyway ... I would just like to welcome you to the board. I don't know if you will find what you are looking for here since it is focused on our children but I hope at the very least you find some understanding. I know a lot of us feel out of place in social situations.

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    Originally Posted by Syler
    Now of course I try to be mindful of people's feelings. I'm not totally socially inept. I just find that over time, it always creeps through. Perhaps it isn't even what I say but how I say it. I have been ridiculed for using words people didn't understand and even for simply being too articulate. Then there is the boredom I experience around most people and pain I experience listening to them. And of course there are those dreaded ideas of mine that just seem weird to most people. Maybe I should just stop expecting people to get it.

    You might find the thread on verbal giftedness (sometime in the last month)to be relevant.

    I have to wonder though: if your reaction to others is that it is painful to listen to their ideas/what they have to say, why are you surprised to get an unfavorable response in return? I don't find that people need to be on equal intellectual footing to have high quality conversations, but I do think that the people involved in the conversation have to be interested in seeing a different perspective, and they have to respect what the other person has to offer enough to do more than wait for their own turn to talk. Even those with different intellectual gifts/capacities can grow from each other. It's not so much about being right or wrong, I think.

    As a teacher, I spend a lot of time talking to elementary school students. They all have substantially less life experience than I do; they often have less knowledge than I do; and most of them express themselves with a much more restricted vocabulary than the one with which I express myself. However, I often find my conversations with students to be fascinating and thought provoking despite those weaknesses(at least that's true when we share an interest in the topic--I admit that my eyes glaze over rather quickly when the topic turns to video games, pokemon or anything related Twilight wink ). Seeing something through the eyes of someone who appears to be "more" or "less" intelligent/knowledgeable/articulate/experienced/etc.. than you is (imho), informative not because it is right or wrong, but because it is part of the sum total of how voices interect in our world to impact policy and culture.

    I would not want conversations with my students to be the sum total of my conversational opportunities, and I do also look for opportunities to talk with people who have specific knowledge or experience with a topic of interest. However, even in those conversations I expect that I will not understand everything that is said to me in the way that it is intended; and I expect that people will not always understand everything I am trying to say in the way that I intend it to be understood. Communication is often imperfect.

    Finding other people who approach conversation similarly works well for me. Finding myself in conversation with people who are overly tied to "right" and "wrong" perspectives/philosophies does not work for me, and name calling or derision is an interaction stopper for me. I recognize that some people find those interaction styles energizing, but they don't work well for me. That said, I come from a background where conversations get loud and can be punctuated with interruptions. That does work for me, and I feel stifled in groups where the norm is highly structured conversation, and where disagreements over *ideas* have to be carefully prefaced/apologized for so as not to offend. Of course, people who *are* comfortable with those highly structured norms don't love *my* conversational style.

    If you are honestly interested in figuring out what is going wrong, you might try tape recording an interaction and listening to your own responses relative to the responses of others. Are your words derisive? Is your tone derisive? Do the people you are conversing with seem to have a different tone or different rules for conversational turn taking? It may be less about the "what" of the conversation than it is about the "how" of the conversation. Try looking for people with similar norms for tone/language/turn taking.

    With respect to what you are saying about money impacting the way in which ideas are "heard" by others, I think that on a one:one or small group level, it is at least as likely to be the "how" as it is the "who". I acknowledge that in bigger groups, stereotypes and generalizations get more play and can shut down opportunity before a conversation ever gets started. But 1:1 or with people you've spent a lot of time with...that's less likely. As people become familiar with one another those generalizations tend to lose sway when applied at the individual level. An individual who doesn't seem to fit a person's preconceived notions becomes the "exception" to the generalization (in other words: "you" the individual are no longer judged so heavily by generalizations, but "you" the individual do not necessarily challenge the person's prejudices/preconceptions--you just become an exception to the rule).

    Not sure this was at all helpful (and sorry it was so long), but those are my thoughts for whatever they're worth. smile

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    Syler Offline OP
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    I appreciate everyone taking time to help me. I will continue to try to figure out what I am doing wrong.

    Please also understand that a lot of what I say is meant to get my point across and may come off as extreme in this medium.

    I do however, think there may be too much emphasis on what I may be doing wrong instead of how to best solve the problem. Suppose you were playing a game of 1 on 1 basketball with a pro basketball player. One can only imagine it would be boring for the pro and quite frustrating for you. Would either of you be doing anything wrong in this situation or would the problem simply be a natural result of the disparity between your abilities?

    One expert used this exact analogy to explain to me why I have social difficulties so I'm not sure it's safe to assume I must be doing something wrong. Despite this, my entire life has been an effort to figure out what I am doing wrong and what I can do differently. The conclusion I always seem to reach is that it doesn't matter what I do or say. I have actually done experiments in which I meticulously monitored everything I said and have still not found acceptance with people. In fact, on occasion I have found that people I have never met have expressed dislike of me.

    What I find, is that as one moves up the socioeconomic ladder, people tend to scrutinize the social value of others. Do any of you recall a bunch of fat ugly girls in the high school "in crowd?" Of course with that particular subset of people, many other superficial things enter the mix as well.

    I also notice that even people who are not the popular kids tend to show a great deal of conformity and those who do not become outcasts. Perhaps it is my lack of conformity and not what I say or how I communicate that is the problem. After all, social exchange theory holds that people align themselves with those from whom they receive a benefit. Perhaps people just make a rational judgment not to align with a non-conformist or even someone who is different for fear that the person would drag them down.

    Because I have been so brutally slammed into the margins in life, I have and continue to be different even if I try to conform. I remember talking to one guy in college (I was an older returning student) and I made a comment about how unaccepting of me people were. He stated very simply "dude, you are older - you don't belong here."

    I think maybe it is possible that my life has never afforded the luxury of being where I belong. Maybe, people simply don't like people who are different. Maybe it is as simple as that.



    Last edited by Syler; 08/18/10 07:00 AM.
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