Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion I need help, please... Discipline issues

I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to say here. What message are you saying you got from the Parent's Guide book? That your son should follow orders and be compliant? I'm wondering if you possibly have this confused with another book. I didn't get anything remotely like that from the book. Rather it talks about the differences between authoritative, authoritarian and permissive parenting. It talks about the risk that punishment breeds resentment and the importance of understanding intensity in gifted kids. It talks about self discipline and avoiding power struggles.

It sounds like you have a lot of worry about how your son will function in group activities like karate. I think you are borrowing trouble. Most kids act differently in groups than they act with parents at home. I would try activities and see how they go before you spin your worry so far into the future.

Ah yes, I am worried about the future. I also worry, "what will the neighbors think?" without saying it sarcastically like I would before I became a mother. I don't think the book recommended authoritarian parenting, but it did say the parents need to be on the same page. The hubby and I aren't, but we support each others parenting and we're keeping open ongoing conversation about it. Thanks for pointing out that he'll be different in a group setting.

We ended up taking him to a child psychologist to help us. Turns out the doc thinks he has mild/moderate ADHD and could possibly have ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). So he suggested meds for the ADHD along with a "token system" for behavior. So last week we met and discussed how they get tokens and what/how many tokens it "costs" to do the "privileges". Just opened the poker chips today and gave them their "starting 10" and so far, so good... DS5 has already spent 3 of his tokens to play Wii, was going to spend another 4 to play games, but realized he only had 3 left after that and decided not to spend that 4 to play games. So he's giving them value.

I was just finished reading "Smart Boys" by Kerr & Cohn (I really need to make a little book report for the recommended resources.) � But they said "A study by Arcenaux (1990) shows that although underachieving gifted students do possess Antisocial Personality Disorder characteristics, these characteristics are uniquely combined with a need for understanding and knowledge. �Although they engage in behaviors that are not socially acceptable, they seem to have a longing to understand their own behavior and the world around them. �In contrast to the unthinking unfeeling sociopath, they usually feel the need for profound thought and for expressing intense feelings.". They go on to say in the chapter "Gifted Sociopaths, Redeemable Rebels, and how to tell the difference" that aggressive gifted boys are not actual psychopaths but have adopted a survival strategy similar to certain species of butterfly which mimic toxic species. �The boys take on the characteristics of sociopathic behavior to defend themselves against those who would humiliate or hurt them. �So the "American Psychiatric Association has not allowed the term Antisocial Personality Disorder to be used with children and instead has developed three other categories to describe them: oppositional defiant disorder, intermittent explosive disorder, and conduct disorder.". According to this book �the Antisocial Personality Disorder diagnosis (aka sociopath or psychopath) is like a brain damage that the neurotransmitters are forever ruined and does not respond to treatment. �

I just read about this in a book, now I'm reading about it in your post so I thought I'd let you know. �ODD is apparently a sub-category of sociopath, but more like they're faking it as an effective self-defense mechanism than any actual neurological disorder. �So with understanding and behavior training the ODD goes away. �Phew! �

Hope that helps and hope I don't sound too weird for reading about these things. �
My brother used ADD medicine and my stepmother said it really helped him accomplish more things in his life and in his day. �She told me to try to keep an open mind about it if they recommend it for my son when he is older. �She says your brain chemistry changes as you age so that it's a useful tool that helps that they eventually outgrow the need for.
I think it's great that the reward system seems to be working for you. �Putting aside the debate over internal vs. External motivation I think this might work because it's putting the executive functioning responsibility back on him. �And it's a positive reinforcement system which doesn't trigger the gifted ODD defenses.

Hi Kd
Good luck with the token system. A book I really value is called 'Transforming the Difficult Child' by Howard Glasser, the 2008 edition and the workbook that goes with it is terrific.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

"I love for example strategy he and I call sports casting. Instead of having a fit as an adult when our kids go off, we act like a sportscaster. "Oh, I see you are having a fit. I see you are red in the face. I hear you screaming and holding your breath."
I love it! I've seen this approach. It just looks so cool. I'm buying this cD

This might well be nothing new, but here goes.... The most important advice I have about parenting is that parents need to earn their authority - being older doesn't cut it, and neither does owning the house - and this is important with every kid, but with gifted kids it becomes ten times as important five years earlier. Earning authority as a parent means respecting the child, being willing to engage in discussions about rules, and never exercising power just for the hell of it (which, unfortunately, a LOT of parents do). If I were you, I'd skip the parenting books and go read Locke and Jefferson - it's all about "just powers derived from the consent of the governed".

KD, if you're consistent with the token economy it can work really well. It makes the child so much more conscious of when they've done something good or bad, and eliminates a lot of yelling (turns it into a financial transaction). The tricky bit is keeping track-- but I think it's worth the effort.

Meds can really change how ADHD presents-- I don't know if you're considering that, but it is helpful to a lot of people.

Kudos to you for figuring out your DS's needs--
DeeDee

Zhain....this is exactly how I felt in my 20s and 30s and I tried my darndest to raise DS14 exactly this way. I'm not at all impressed with how that went. I think that each child needs slightly different emphasis and each parent needs to face slightly different challenges.

shrugs
grinity

Umm..but!,�
Jefferson has been quoted as saying this political consent to government does not apply to infants to the age of decision, women, or slaves.
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/fall97/jeffersn.html
In raising his own daughters he was clearly a hothouser in the extreme-scheduling finishing lessons that lasted all day for his daughters in both French and music while forbidding the reading of novels or study of unapproved topics. �
I get what you're saying though. �You didn't mean I should literally study their parenting techniques (especially since back then men weren't the primary parents, especially for small children.). �
Besides agreeing with you that children deserve respect and are people too, I also agree that the discipline theories get put to the test years sooner and much more thoroughly with gifted children.
Since you're quoting the declaration of independence text you're obviously encouraging us to treat children like fellow American Citizens. �Which I am happy to do. �I want him to learn about his citizenship. �But ironically part of that is property rights and then it would matter who owns the house. �But we're talking about disciplining children, especially in cases where their behavior is disrupting their pursuit of happiness as in ODD, ADD, and other behavior disorders, then teaching prosocial behavior trumps cultivating altruistic behaviors both in urgency of need, and can be more readily observed.
Yes, respect has to be a key factor-both ways. �

I'm considering "skill-streaming for elementary school", which looks like a lot of discussion and role-playing for pro-social behavior. �I'm also considering The Nurtured Heart, which looks similar to the "total transformation system" my husband wanted from a radio ad, but from a fraction of the cost- $25 vs. $300, both look like a similar technique. �Both look like they say the same darn thing I've been telling him- Quit arguing with a two year old! �If he has to do something make him do it, if not let him be. � You don't have to go to every argument you're invited to.
I'm intrigued with this token economy system. �Guess I'd have to buy the workbook to flesh out the details. �I'm gonna google first see if I can find a free outline that works for me. �Oh, here's the link to the other book I'm considering, but I would buy it used from Amazon, not from here. http://www.researchpress.com/scripts/details.asp?item=4950&detail_id=116&detail_item=
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