Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Where do I even begin?! Except. gifted preschooler

To all:

Thank you! Thank you! I am so grateful for this group!

I have so many thoughts and ideas to explore at this point. I have already started calling about testing, and I have already left a message with the elementary school regarding grade skipping. I am just gathering some information at this point, and I am SO appreciate to all of you for your advice! More to come later...must feed the baby.

Keep it coming! I'm all ears!

In appreciation,
Allison

Hi!

Well, I have a few updates. It's late and I'm a bit sleepy so I will try to be as organized as I can with my thoughts.

First of all, some good news: our school district is open to grade skipping. I spoke with a counselor today who told me that their goal is to serve every child. At first, she stated that they would do a 4 to 6 week trial in kindergarten, and make the change to first grade if appropriate. I have to provide IQ testing and achievement testing scores. I explained that I did not feel it would be in his best interest to move him during the middle of the semester. I told her a bit more about him, including reading and writing at age two. I explained the current "behavior" issues, and my concerns about his current placement. I simply came out and asked if she would consider allowing him to start the year in first grade if I supplied test scores, and she agreed. She was eventually very nice and seems open to really helping us.

I also spoke with DS's current teacher. She emphasized that she did not want to imply that he has Asberger's. She only brought it up in relation to a conversation we were having about another child, now in his 20's, with a very high IQ and a few different behaviors. Then she said, "besides, if your DS has it, I'm sure it's very mild." Interpret that as you wish. She asked if I could observe him in other settings, such as church, where he's in a more chaotic environment with children moving around, etc. She told me that Asberger's presents itself in those types of environments more than at home. I emphasized that I do not think he has any real symptoms, except that he read early. She emphasized that the symptoms may only be obvious in settings such as school or church. This is a new one for me. Any thoughts? I just feel like she is trying to find a diagnosis, and is not open to the possibility that he's just a bright kid who is no longer appropriately stimulated. I just feel like she is looking for a "problem." And it's surprising to me. I feel like I would be the last person to be in denial about a potential disorder such as Asberger's. I just can't see any correlation. Is it really possible to see one side of my child at home, with family, with friends, at play...and to see another completely different side of him at school? That I don't ever see at home?

Which makes me feel more confident that I should find another plan, and withdraw him from the school. Our goal is to have Plan B in place by the end of next month. I don't know how realistic it is to have him tested within the next few weeks. I suppose it could take awhile to get on a list?

I spoke to our local university about testing, at someone's recommendation. They typically have PhD students perform the testing, and the children are typically those who are suspected to have learning disabilities. My child would not fit the typical description. So...I'm thinking this is not a good option. The school counselor I spoke with gave me a few names to contact, along with the GT coordinator for this area/district. So I have a bit more research to do.

I feel so deflated that I'm even being asked to observe my own son in another setting to see if I can identify the red flags for Asberger's. I would be the first to be his advocate if he was diagnosed. I am a physical therapist and believe strongly in early intervention with a variety of therapy needs. So I do not feel that I am blind to this issue. I just think this is being blown way out of proportion.

I told his teacher today that I have found a wonderful support group/forum/resource online, and that I firmly believe that his "issues" are not related to autism, but rather to the fact that he has an amazing little mind. I told her what I have read and heard from all of you about the potential "behavior" issues, or defense mechanisms, as I prefer :), around this time of preschool. I told her that I would love to see how he interacts with a classroom of 6 and 7 year olds. She voiced her support and her interest in trying to help Jonathan. She was excited that this path may be our path, as opposed to Asberger's, which, again, we don't really take seriously anyway.I felt pretty brave,heehee, when I told her that I feel like his current environment is no longer appropriate. I told her that I don't feel like she has necessarily contributed to that fact, but rather, it just no longer meets his needs. She really is a lovely person and I know she cares about Jonathan. Perhaps these teachers typically have little experience in identifying those children with behaviors who have our son's developmental history. So I'm trying not to hold her accountable for suggesting that he may need a diagnosis. I'm trying to just deal with this and realize that no one caused it. It just is what it is. It happened as a result of DS being in the wrong environment for too long.

OK. Enough rambling.

Thanks again for any advice/input you have. I would welcome any further comments.

Thanks,
Allison

Wow Allison -
You have come so far so fast! Take a minute to breath here and enjoy the vista. Wow!

It sounds like you are starting to forgive the preschool teacher for her "Asberger's Comment." I wish she had found a better way to alert you to the difference between you child and many children, and the the seriousness that you need to take this difference with - but at least it happened! Someday you will look back with gratitude that "someone" smelled a rotten fish, and you child's spirit didn't just float along, rotting quietly.

Sure, go through the motions of "observing" him, at Church, and with his older friends as well....hint, hint.
I'm read that gifted children are often advanced at what they want out of friends, and dissapointed by agemates at times.

Always remember that a Level IV gifted kid is going to be about 1:100 in a group of "normal Gifted" kids (Level II, or top 3%)so that good, qualified professionals may be totally outside their area with your son. Having the PhD students do the test would probably give you a very high number but very little info to go with it. A local professional might be better, but again there is the 1:100 problem. And yes, there may be a wait.

Question 1: Does his current school have an "older group?"
Question 2: Will the public school do the IQ test themselves? Would he have to enrolled in Kindy now? Would they consider that? This may not be the best answer with the current "adaptations" if the work wouldn't be at his readiness level.
Quesetion 3: Very exciting that you plan to have him out by the end of the month. What are your plans?
Smiles,
Trinity

I just want to chime in to say that it sounds like you WERE very brave! Pat yourself on the back because that's hard! We're nice people who don't like to make waves. It's hard to say "No, that won't work" to an authority figure like your child's teacher. It sounds like you did great and probably made some headway even. Focusing on the appropriateness of the environment was a really good move. Good on ya'!

I think it's pretty common for HG+ kids to attract the (inaccurate) Asperger's label. Both situations can involve near-obsessive interest in a subject, knowledge far beyond the norm, and social awkwardness among same-age peers. (And possibly other overlaps--I'm not terribly knowledgable about Asperger's...) The mom of another child in our circle once "diagnosed" my son with Asperger's, though he's highly social and socially appropriate.

I also have a longtime friend whose child has extreme asynchronous development. He's perhaps the most intellectually gifted child I've ever met, but he's a good three years behind socially. He got the Asperger's label thrown around like mad at school because school was so exhausting for him that his behavior got worse and worse as the week wore on...even though his father is a psychologist with a Ph.D. whose JOB is to ID kids with Asperger's for a prominent children's hospital! The kid lives with an expert! Come on! Anyway, the child was tested and retested, but he was always found negative for Asperger's. The kid's mom finally told the school, "Look, it's not possible to have Asperger's only on Thursday and Friday. His behavior the other 5 days of the week doesn't fit the diagnosis for Asperger's, so that can't be what it is." She fought the school and this erroneous diagnosis by non-experts for 3 years before she finally chose to home school him.

My point is that sometimes a little knowledge of a condition is a dangerous thing, especially in an educator. Please don't let the teacher's words bug you too much. Certainly you should consider Asperger's, just as you should consider anything that might be relevant to your child's health and well-being. But you've done that! If it's wrong, it's wrong. Next question!

Just don't let it get you down.

Like Trinity, I'm interested in what your plan B is.

Hang in there!

As the parent of a kid (now pretty much grown) with Asperger's (with a *P*, if you please) , I'd like to chime in here. If you are not feeling a huge sense of relief at finally realizing what it is that makes your child so different, then I will go out on a limb and say that he probably doesn't have AS. My son has quirks that all make sense under the Aspie label. It explains his social problems, his one sided speech patterns, his lack of curiosity about other people, his low muscle tone, poor handwriting, lack of awareness of personal space, extreme reactions to lights, noise, crowds, tactile sensations, etc. Many of these have become less obvious with time and a LOT of overt teaching, but he will always have these tendencies. While it is possible to learn to cope with autism, I don't believe anyone can actually be "cured" of it.

My son enjoys spending time with friends, but he is 18 and still pretty much plays parallel style through role playing and video games. He rarely thinks to ask his friends, "what's new?" or "when are you leaving for college?" He just doesn't think to ask them anything beyond "what game should we play next?" or "are you hungry?" He lives very much in the moment, and finds it difficult to talk about the future.

There is a very broad spectrum for kids with different forms of autism. I do encourage you to look at NVLD (non verbal learning disability) if AS seems way off, just in case you are not familiar with it. It's similar to AS, but generally has a much milder affect on people. It's like AS light. I suggest this just as a precaution, and I sincerely hope that your son does not fit under any of these labels.

best wishes-

OK! What a week!

Let me start by again expressing my sincere gratitude for your interest and concern, your thoughts/opinions/advice. I am soaking it in and am so grateful for this community! So THANK YOU!!

I think perhaps our most defining moment for this week was a visit with our DS's physician, whom we respect quite a bit. He has a history of thinking out of the box when it comes to our family, including being the gateway to find a diagnosis for my husband's rare disease, which was called "panic attacks" for twelve years. So we have built a sense of trust over the years.(It was actually anaphylaxis.He's fine, by the way.) And we also know that WE are our own strongest advocates for our own medical care. That should help in the uphill climb with being an advocate for our son, I think.

As I explained what has been going on at school to our MD, he just shook his head, and said several times, "This is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous." He immediately started listing all of the possible explanations to these "behaviors." Each one was completely in line with what I have read on this site or through links to this site, or with what you all have shared with me. He finally said, "Your son is just BORED. That's his only problem. I've known all along that he is highly intelligent. This is no new news to me." He must have had experience with this topic before, as it sounded an awful lot like he had been reading pages from this website. He was completely supportive, and, just for the record, performed what he called an "Asperger's Screen." He and DS, as they always do when I take him in, sat down and talked about a variety of topics from being a chef to pretending on the playground, etc. DS now says he wants to be chef when he grows up, and have a restaurant with a bowling theme. How funny is that? His specialty, he told the doctor, will be "PB & J for sure." Anyway, I feel confident that I should not worry about any type of developmental delay. Our doctor assured me he sees absolutely nothing to worry about. Quite the contrary, actually. He again stated that he has known DS was "a little genius" from the first time they met. I use that term with reservation. I feel funny even typing it or saying it. I'm just quoting the doctor. He also told me that "I take care of two other little geniuses" a few years older than DS. We discussed a few of the issues they had with schools, etc. and how becoming "labeled" is so detrimental at this age. He agreed that I should take DS out of his current program (even though his own children go to the same school and he really loves it). He agrees with me that the damage has been done in this particular environment, and that even if DS seems to bounce back and get his spark back :), that things will always be different at this particular school. He told me that some children like DS simply need a bit more structure than what a typical Montessori program has to offer, and that one of his other little patients like DS is thriving in the public school system. His parents are very involved and are constantly trying to find new ways to keep him challenged, and it's working very nicely at this point.

Our MD also agreed with the school counselor on which psychologist to use in town to test DS.

He wrapped up with our conversation by saying, "You know, sometimes teachers have such a NARROW view of the world. All they know is, (and he added a comical redneck drawl), "He just ain't like them other kids!" and they don't know what to do with him. So they start to look for a label."

So...can I just say how RELIEVED I feel?!! And how FABULOUS it is to have another professional agree with my own intuition?!! We are lucky to have such a great advocate in our family doctor.

OK. Here's our plan: focus on home schooling at least until next fall, when DS will either start kindergarten or bump up to first grade, most likely at the local public school, of which I have heard nothing but praise.

We will finish out this semester at the Montessori school, just to allow for some closure with friends/routine/calendar, etc. and to provide childcare, essentially, on the two days that I work as a physical therapist. DS will probably only attend 2 partial days a week, though, at this point. After the holidays, I will either let him go to a Mother's Day Out program at our church two days a week (just to get in some serious fun time), or we will look into a few other preschools in the area for two days a week. I work on Tuesdays and Thursdays for about 5 or 6 hours. Our daughter, who is only 8 months, goes to Mothers Day Out. It is a wonderful little program and I think DS would have a lot of fun. If our budget can handle it, I will leave my job and Monday through Friday can focus at least a few hours a day on home schooling.

We have already started doing "lessons" at home and he absolutely loves it. He is putting a star on the calendar for each lesson he completes. When he gets 50 stars, we are headed to Target for a $10.00 toy. I thought this might spark a little interest and help make learning a little more fun, since he has been so withdrawn lately. So far it seems to be working beautifully. He initiates the process himself without me having to say, "it's time for a lesson!" He seems joyful, confident, and generally just happy to be doing his little workbooks. And, of course, our entire day is essentially home schooling. We learned about tools/batteries/electricity flow this morning when he helped me change the batteries in his baby sister's play aquarium. And we used measuring cups to fix a recipe in the kitchen. We talked about outer space when he asked, "Does outer space have a sky?" He seems really concerned about how his sister got into my tummy in the first place, also. He keeps saying, "Well, was she in there when you were a little girl and then she just grew bigger? Because if she wasn't in there before, and then she was, how did she get there?" My answer of "God put her there and helped her grow" just isn't cutting it. The same holds true for the tooth fairy. He keeps saying, "I just don't think that a tooth fairy lives on this earth." How are you all answering these tough questions? How much is too much information for a four year old?

And now for a HUGE change in our family: even my husband's mother now is convinced that Jonathan needs to be home schooled. I cannot even TELL you how big this is!! She has been trying to talk me out of it for several years now. I have only brought it up occasionally, but she has made her opinion very clear. So has my husband's sister. My husband's family is well-educated and well meaning, but they are a bit old fashioned at times. So I am really thrilled that now they are seeing things a little differently. Not that I would let their opinion persuade me one way or the other. Let me be clear on that. My husband and I are a united front when it comes to raising our children. But it is really nice to have their support in big issues such as this.

Our next step is to pursue testing. I appreciate your advice to wait a few months and do some home schooling first. I think that's a great idea. I'm not really sure where his true abilities are since he has not been very active in his school lessons lately.

Then we will just take one week at a time until Christmas, and spend as little time as possible at school. I feel so relieved to have made the decision to pull him out. I know it is the right thing for our family. And I've already spoken with the business office to ensure that we can get a refund for next semester.

I'm really leaning towards the public school system in our community. I don't know yet if we will push for him to start first grade. A lot of it will depend on testing results, I suppose. Even if he has to go through kindergarten first, I think it will be worth trying. The system gets the highest rating available year after year. And friends who have their little ones there are pleased. Plus, the counselor gave me the name of the GT director for the school system. I will contact her and get some more information, as well. I honestly don't even think that the local private schools would have as much to offer as public system.

I'm really just feeling better about so many things.

I am grateful that all of this has happened. It has been a huge wake-up call for DS's dad and I. We have been floating along for several years now not really having to deal with any issues of a gifted child, except feeling quite proud when others remark, "HOW old is your son?!!" as he was reading a sign or a book or something at age 2 or 3. (I think we would all admit that is kind of fun, isn't it?) This series of recent events has forced us to realize that we can't just float along any more. Hopefully, things ahead will be smooth. But I know now a little more about what to expect. And I am so grateful to have all of these wonderful resources at my fingertips! I had no idea there was so much information available to help us parent him.

So again, thank you to all who have responded! Your continued comments are always welcome!

Warmest regards,
Allison

Allison-

You need to do what feels right for your family regarding the birds and the bees. I'll share my story, and maybe others will also.

My son was 3.5 when his little sister was born. So quite naturally, he became interested in the birds and the bees when he was around three. He used to read my childbirth books and watch childbirth videos and a tv show which I think was called, "A Baby's Story". We bought him a couple children's books on the topic as well. So he was very well informed at an early age and too young to be embarrassed by any of it.

That little girl started growing up with all of these materials still hanging around the house. She asked lots of questions and though she wasn't reading much until about 2.5, she enjoyed looking at the photos and illustrations, and remembered everything she was told. We attended a party when this DD was 20 or 21 months old. There was a very pregnant woman there, and her only other child was six years old. She whispered to me that her son knew NOTHING and that they wanted to keep it that way. Later that evening, the boy asked about how the baby got into his Mom, and I had to steer my toddler out of the room, and distract her,lest she spill the beans! She was very articulate and would have given a short lecture on the topic! This is one of those incidents that stands out in my mind to illustrate how different my kids can be.

DS was also about 4 when he asked, "I can understand how the mom's genes get into the baby, but I don't see how the dad's get there." So I told him; I've worked in reproductive health a lot and am pretty fearless about talking with him about anything. He thought my explanation was disgusting. But, he was also reading all the movie reviews, and had noticed a lot that said "rated R for sex." So he was really glad to know what sex was and felt confident that he was not missing anything interesting by not seeing those movies! I'd rather have him hear if from me than anyone else or try to figure it out on his own.

Re: Tooth fairy. When he started asking, I just kept asking him questions back, like, "well, why does't it make sense? What would explain it, instead?" I let him figure it himself out with some coaching from me. he was so proud when he got it.

My mother always said that if a child is old enough to formulate a questions, they are old enough to get an answer. Start your answer at a basic level and then go deeper if they still seem curious or ask more questions.

Alee,
I'm so glad that your Pediatrician is a resource! That is wonderful. Glad your inlaws are supportive also. The testing will give you lots of insight and I'm very pleased for you. I think our children need us to "mirror" back to them their nature, which includes lots of things, but the "shape of their mind" is certianly one of them.

If it's any help, I called "DNA" a "map" that gives directions on how to build a baby. I said that Daddy's DNA and Mom's DNA are helped to be put together by God. I tried to make jokes about it. I found that my son was particularly interested in the "what does birth feel like" and that I was comfortable pointing out where his DNA will get packaged up someday, and where it will come out, but that it isn't the same tube as the pee. The female anatomy was left more shadow-y. I think I probably made reference to the way his lego and k'nex pieces fit together, when he finally got around to asking.

I think that we can explain a lot if we look at if from their point of view, use words and actions they are familiar with, and stick to the spirit of the explaination.

Smiles,
Trinity

Trinity wrote:
"Question 1: Does his current school have an "older group?"
Question 2: Will the public school do the IQ test themselves? Would he have to enrolled in Kindy now? Would they consider that? This may not be the best answer with the current "adaptations" if the work wouldn't be at his readiness level."

Hi!

Yes, his current school does have an older group. He is in a Montessori school, in a class with 3, 4, and 5 year olds. He is 4. Last year worked beautifully. Towards the end of the year, I knew he was ready for kindergarten, but the teacher clearly did not support letting him start early. This year, however, she gave him the option of joining the 5 year olds who stay after lunch for "kindergarten." She made it clear it would not "count" as kindergarten, but he could join them (along with three others his age). DS made it VERY clear on the first day that he did not want to stay in her room all day. I knew something was amiss at this point, but we decided it was back to school jitters or something mild. He simply has not been happy the whole semester in her class. The only way to join an older group would be to go over to the elementary side of the building, with the 6/7/8 year old class.(Again, it's three years in the same class. Clearly not something that will work for him.) I thought about asking, but I think it may confuse him and cause some anxiety to be going to the same building every day but suddenly to a new class with new friends. Plus, I do not think the school would be open to it if they would not even consider allowing kindergarten to happen early.

I'm not sure if the school system would pay for the testing. I know his current school will not, and he is not old enough for the public system yet. So I doubt it would even be an issue. I need to do some more research, though, on having testing covered. That would be pretty fabulous!

Thanks so much for your interest and advice!

Allison