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The thread on dysgraphia got me thinking.

Ds6 is not a writer, and is not doing so hot in his language arts class. As you may recall, he's subject-accelerated to third grade in a GT school. I can't decide if not wanting to write is more related to a maturity level mismatch, or not being able to physically get his ideas on paper, or an inability to organize his thoughts ... it may be all of the above! He *can* write all right, but slowly and not very complete. He avoids writing at all costs. He does like to draw, but isn't what I would consider "good" at it!

In a recent 5-page stapled character journal, he wrote two sentences. "Nick is a one of a kind robot maker. Mrs. Granger tries to be nice." That's it. Plus a number of fairly complicated drawings I can tell he worked hard on, and he's no artist. He got some quite sharp written comments from his teacher about the journal being incomplete, that they'd spent a lot of time talking about the characters.

I don't quite know what to do, because he's comprehending well for pleasure (reading usually 5th-7th grade level chapter books), but isn't ready for all the character development and plot line talk. It's a huge maturity mismatch. He doesn't even think to flush that sort of thing out a bit to show the teacher what he knows.

And then there's his science project. He's doing a research project about Krakatoa for the school science fair (it's optional for the little kids), and he likes to go into some detail. The science teacher gave the lower grades a "max two paragraph" rule. Um, really? Not ds6, you won't -- he's way too interested to keep it down to two paragraphs, and I've been doing my best to keep a lid on the amount of intformation. He's been re-reading all his volcano books and we've been online together, gathering information.

He knows all sorts of crazy stuff but has no idea how to get it in a format that someone else would be able to follow, let alone write and/or type them all out. So I've been letting him dictate while I type, and sometimes suggesting a train of thought. I can't decide if I'm overstepping the line or not -- I don't think so, because the thoughts are all his. But I'm definitely suggesting format rearrangement.

I'm going to start teaching him alternate ways to get his writing on paper -- dictation, maybe some keyboarding software. Lord knows he's on the computer enough! But how much "working together" on writing is ok? Am I wrong in thinking, how will he learn if someone doesn't sit down and show him how?

I don't know quite what to do to encourage him to get his ideas on paper, to practice without making it a chore. I think he'll really *like* being able to write, once he can get it all out on paper! But then there's the problem with language arts ... maturity-wise he's still a 6yo and isn't quite ready to bother with the details. But he reads and understands complex information just fine, as apparent in his volcano research. So what do you do with a kid like this at school, and how do you encourage these separate-but-intertwined areas?

In retrospect, I am so grateful that my mother sat me down and showed me how. At the time I resented it, since I knew my writing met my teachers' expectations. I don't see how a teacher with 21 or more students can do this on their own.

Mia - have you been to www.bravewriter.com? SHe outlines the phases a writer goes through. By him dictating to you, you are helping him to learn to organize his thoughts independent of him having to write it himself. That's a huge step!

What some suggest is a digital voice recorder. He can record his thoughts and then write/type them up himself as a bridge to being able to write/type from this thoughts.

My DS will give me THE best story. the minute he sees me writing, it becomes stilted, abbreviated, and uninteresting. He over thinks it. If he tries to write his own thoughts, it's very abbreviated b/c he doesn't like the physical act of handwriting. Now the other day he wrote for over an hour about a character for game lol.

I think there might be something to copywork and dictation in helping kids to hold thoughts in their head and write them down followed by re-writing fables and short stories in their own words. They are not focused on content b/c the content is in the story already, they are focused on managing their thoughts and getting them on paper.

I have the same issue w/ my DS. He knows so much information but won't put it down on paper. Unfortunately school is usually product-oriented.

Hi Mia,
I would show the writing teacher his volcano work, and see if she can get him to write about 'research topics' instead of 'character observation.' Afterall, it's still writing. And, if he watches TV or movies, I would 'have fun discussions' about characters in the TV show.

You could show him a plot line - how the main character keeps meeting obsitcles and overcoming them. You could use the remote to pause and give 'points' everytime one of you can say outloud a sentence about how the action reveals the nature of the character. Or have a big list of words that discribe people and race from the couch to the list and touch a word that describes the character. To earn his 'point' he would then have to say, in words, how what he just saw tells him that the person has that characteristic.

If it's a chance to win, my DS would do it all day. Your job is to be enthusiastic if he says anything that seems remotely correct, and to compete with him 'a little' so that he wins, after a bit of struggle, but not too much.

I think the scribing thing you are doing is great. Next time, write the sentences down on the computer with each line as it's own paragraph, and show him how to 'copy/paste' so that all the similar lines go together. Time after that, show him the list of 'transition words' that help him get from one idea to the next.

Or you could write a list of your own sentences,perhaps some advice on a topic he has experience with, and ask him to sort them into meaningful paragraphs to use here. It's fun!

Love and More LOve
Grinity

Mia-
How is he with story sequencing? I'm wondering if you started with picture cards, then upgraded to sentences, then paragraphs- cut out and have him sequence them, if it'd help him get the structure? Also- how about Venn diagrams of characters that he likes- what they have in common etc?

We're in the same writing boat. A blank page induces a panic attack nearly instantly! But he is learning to expand a bit with guided questions. (of course- this is me not the school, but it's made a big difference). I use game characters a lot and I think it'd work with your DS too! So I'll say- do you think that "Joe" is more like Mario or Bowser. Tell me three ways. It gets him thinking about things he already understands and how new characters relate to those.

And I'm teaching him to type. Because frankly, other than school, writing has very little purpose that I can find! :-)

Dazy,
Can you post a link to exactly the part of the website where she oulines the phases? I looked around and got lost. It is interesting the emphasis she puts on copying literature, and doing dictation of literature.

Thanks,
Grinity

My state is looking at reworking testing and one of the big issues is the writing portfolios. This video describes some of the rules KY teachers are supposed to follow to avoid the appearance of cheating. Ugh!

DS6 has similar issues with writing. It is the one area that he isn't able to achieve instant success in. This actually turned out to be a blessing in our siutation - heterogeneous classroom in public school. He has had to struggle a bit to organize his thoughts on paper, but he's seeing the struggle payoff - good for work ethic. I say go ahead and "instruct" him as long as you set realistic goals. Then show him how much his effort is paying off by saving old writing. I see writing as a great chance to praise DS for effort rather than performance.

Grinity - I don't know if it's the on the website. I read it in the Writer's Jungle. It starts with Jot it Down phase where you are the scribe. THen moves on to the Partnership phase where DC is writing some and you're writing some. ETc.... she tells how to determine what phase your DC is in.

Adding more to my writing portfolio tangent. This was a letter from a teacher about keeping it as part of the state assessment. It ties into the "if it's not tested, it's not taught" dilemma. Another Ugh!

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090220/OPINION04/902200332/1016/rss06