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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 7
Junior Member
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OP
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 7 |
Hi - new here. I have an almost 7 year old son.
He exhibits lots of troubling behaviors and there is a desire to label him as ADHD although this label seems to go through phases. If he is behaving well, then people like teachers, leaders at his after school program, etc think he is great, but when he is in a bad cycle, he is quickly labeled with ADHD.
We are stuck. Our son has always been different, not normal. We are alienated socially because my son is a wild card - not sure who he is going to get along with at the party, etc so a lot of times, we just avoid.
He is a major sensory seeking kid. He has to smell everything. Like once he put a twig in his ear and we got it out with a tweezer and he grabbed it and put it in his hands and all he could was just smell it with these long deep breaths as if it was his way of understanding what just happened to him.
He still uses a taggy blanket for the sensual feeling of tag and sucks his thumb while rubbing tag. He also puts anything in his mouth and will eat food out of the trashcan and from the floor despite his peers telling him he is gross. I know this sound like aspbergers or autism tendencies, but he definitely is not that and no one has ever suggested that.
He is youngest boy in his class and he is about to complete first grade. He does third grade math or higher and can do puzzles for hours. When he was 2, he was doing 100 piece puzzles with little help. Then when he was 3, he was doing 200 piece puzzles by himself. He can do any puzzle he wants, but when started 1000 piece puzzles, which he can do by himself, he just gets overwhelmed and then walks away from it.
He didn't learn how to read until he was taught in kindergarten, but he quickly caught on and is now reading at second/third grade level.
He is major perfectionist. Like if he has a puzzle and only matched 10 pieces in 10 mins, he will say I am the worst puzzler in the world and be almost in tears with frustration.
When I try to explain my son to people, all that comes to mind is intense. Like when he was 20 months, he used to put his hand on my work laptop. I would say you can't touch mom's computer as its not a toy. He would then run to it several times a day and just put his hand on it to test me. This has been persistent personality trait.
He is not bothered by death at all. When he talks about cremation and burials, he speaks very non-chalantly. I asked him if it makes him sad to talk about things like that and he gave me a look that said "don't be ridiculous".
He has a very good memory too.
I am thinking of getting him tested for giftedness as I don't have another diagnosis. I don't know if his IQ is so high as rather the other 5 excitabilities of giftedness is what I think applies to him and I am not sure there is really a way to assess for that.
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 7
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OP
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 7 |
Thanks for reading. I should have mentioned we did go down the OT path for sensory processing disorder about 1.5 years ago and while its clear he is sensory seeking, the OT didn't think there was anything extreme and his sensory seeking has improved on its own although it still exists.
But I can tell you from a parents perspective, this doesn't seem to be his main issues.
The reason I included it here is because SENSUAL OVEREXCITABILITY is one key facet that characterizes gifted children. Otherwise, it doesn't seem relevant in terms of triggering bad behavior.
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,080 Likes: 8
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 4,080 Likes: 8 |
I would agree with Portia. That level of sensory-seeking at the age he was 1.5 years ago and at his current age are quite different in significance. The behaviors around food are also a bit beyond both sensory-seeking and GT-related sensory overexcitabilities, and would, in particular, suggest that a comprehensive evaluation, covering a broader range of aspects of development than sensory, ADHD, and GT only, may be advisable. You may wish to consult with your child's primary care physician regarding a comprehensive neuropsychological evaluation, in coordination with OT evaluation. (Such an evaluation would include the GT testing that you were already considering, but within a much richer context regarding his overall development.)
...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 7
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OP
Junior Member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 7 |
Thanks all.
We are going to do multi assessment for him to see what sticks.
Appreciate the feedback.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 12
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 12 |
Welcome! We are alienated socially because my son is a wild card - not sure who he is going to get along with at the party, etc so a lot of times, we just avoid. In what ways does he not get along? For example, is he quiet and stand-offish? Is he uninterested in things the other kids want to talk about or do? Have you coached him in social skills? Has he been enrolled in a social skills group? He is a major sensory seeking kid. He has to smell everything. Like once he put a twig in his ear and we got it out with a tweezer and he grabbed it and put it in his hands and all he could was just smell it with these long deep breaths as if it was his way of understanding what just happened to him. Did you have a conversation with him about this? For example, did you ask him if his ear was itchy, sore, plugged and not hearing well, etc? Did you show him pictures of the inner working of the human ear? Discuss ear wax? Otoscopes? Safety of not putting things in the ears? Ask him why he smelled the stick removed from his ear? He also puts anything in his mouth and will eat food out of the trashcan and from the floor despite his peers telling him he is gross. What type of discussions have you had with him about putting things in his mouth? About what he is thinking when he does this? About germs? You mention that he speaks nonchalantly about death. Has any person or pet that he was attached to died? Has he experienced the permanent loss which death brings? I am thinking of getting him tested for giftedness as I don't have another diagnosis. People can be gifted or high IQ and also have a disability. This is called twice exceptional or 2e. Here is a brief roundup of common behavior characteristics and early milestones which may indicate giftedness - Characteristics of intellectually advanced young people- NAGC's list borrowed from the book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children - Characteristics and Behaviors of the Gifted- Characteristics checklist for gifted children- Tips for Parents: Helping Parents Understand Their Profoundly Gifted Children- Profiles of the gifted and talented which lists 6 different types, categorized by personality/temperament and achievement - Bertie Kingore, Ph.D.: High Achieving, Gifted Learner, Creative Thinker? (hat tip to sanne)- old post with link to article comparing gifted characteristics and ASD characteristics - A common trait in gifted children, often listed amongst identifying characteristics, is alternately described as: " advanced moral reasoning", " well developed sense of justice", " moral sensitivity", " advanced ability to think about such abstract ideas as justice and fairness", " empathy", " compassion". Links to lists of gifted characteristics include several articles on the Davidson Database here and here, SENG (Silverman), SENG (Lovecky).
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 7
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OP
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 7 |
thank you! In what ways does he not get along? For example, is he quiet and stand-offish? Is he uninterested in things the other kids want to talk about or do? Have you coached him in social skills? Has he been enrolled in a social skills group? He has been in daycare and now kinder and first grade. We are social parents and have exposed him early and often to social situations. He is just more intense than other kids. At a birthday part for karate this weekend for example, everytime the coach would give directions, my son would summarize what the coach said and repeat it back loudly and obnoxiously? No other kid was doing that. He ends up clashing with kids if there isn't something to entertain him with maybe because he is bored? Fo[/color]r example, last year we went to an easter party where the kids were going to color easter eggs and hunt for eggs. My son isn't going to nicely dip eggs in a container and wait patiently for them to change colors. He would have mixed all the other colors, spilled half of them, broken the eggs on the ground. Its really obnoxious behavior and most kids (and esp girls) and their parents are offended by his behavior. We ask him why he does stuff like this and he has no response, can't explain himself- whatever it is. He isn't' a bad kid, hes just so intense and most other kids are taken aback by him. To him, I think he just is having fun. He just doesn't operate at the normal kids level, which ends up with us staying on top of him the whole party to make sure he isn't destructive, but then what is the point? We aren't having fun so it we end up leaving. Did you have a conversation with him about this? For example, did you ask him if his ear was itchy, sore, plugged and not hearing well, etc? Did you show him pictures of the inner working of the human ear? Discuss ear wax? Otoscopes? Safety of not putting things in the ears? Ask him why he smelled the stick removed from his ear? I do ask him all sort of questions and let him know that he could really hurt his ear. We had to bring him to doctor once get a rock taken out, so to him he just likes to experience everything sensorially. He goes to a summer camp where take him to the beach at the end of the summer. The whole team of coaches came up to me afterwards and was like in 30 years of running summer camp I have never ever seen a kid enjoy the beach like your son. He doesn't just play in the sand and water, he rolls around in it and lets it covers his hair and face while he eats the sand and he is so happy. Everything has to be sensorial to him, but he's not like autistic kid; he's very much 'normal' when you meet him. He has two younger sisters and when they were both born, he takes their little bodies and holds them and caresses each body part like a tag while he sucks his thumbs. He just has to experience everything so deeply and it makes him happy. I am not sure if my first comment here made it seem like a negative thing. His sensory issues (or maybe they aren't issues) make him happy and satisfied. I just don't see other kids needing this extreme stimulation. What type of discussions have you had with him about putting things in his mouth? About what he is thinking when he does this? About germs? We talk about putting thing in his mouth and that they are dirty, etc until the cows come home - he just can't help himself. His summer camp had a bug week and they brought in the preserved dead bugs and cockroaches, etc. All the kids were looking at them in aw and one of the camp counselors told the 80 campers that they were edible and asked if anyone wanted to eat one. Obviously most of the kids cringed and said no way, but not my son - he was the first and only to volunteer and without hesitation bit the head off a beetle. Eating beetles, things off the floor, etc have no consequence to some one like him. He finds satisfaction in it bc he needs to experience. You mention that he speaks nonchalantly about death. Has any person or pet that he was attached to died? Has he experienced the permanent loss which death brings? No one he has known has died, so its odd he is way to comfortable talking about it and understanding it w ease. (Updated with cleaner quotes) @indigo
Last edited by nataliemarie; 06/07/17 01:51 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 12
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 12 |
This may seem like an infinitesimal difference, but asking a child " why did you do that?" can elicit a shrug whereas asking " what were you thinking when you did that?" can elicit a very revealing description. I'm having a difficult time reading/processing your response due to an error in the quotes in your post, which conflates my post and your response. Possibly you can edit/correct the quotes? Meanwhile I'll try sorting it out here... - thank you! We are alienated socially because my son is a wild card - not sure who he is going to get along with at the party, etc so a lot of times, we just avoid. In what ways does he not get along? For example, is he quiet and stand-offish? Is he uninterested in things the other kids want to talk about or do? Have you coached him in social skills? Has he been enrolled in a social skills group? --He has been in daycare and now kinder and first grade. We are social parents and have exposed him early and often to social situations. He is just more intense than other kids. At a birthday part for karate this weekend for example, everytime the coach would give directions, my son would summarize what the coach said and repeat it back loudly and obnoxiously? No other kid was doing that. He ends up clashing with kids if there isn't something to entertain him with maybe because he is bored? For example, last year we went to an easter party where the kids were going to color easter eggs and hunt for eggs. My son isn't going to nicely dip eggs in a container and wait patiently for them to change colors. He would have mixed all the other colors, spilled half of them, broken the eggs on the ground. Its really obnoxious behavior and most kids (and esp girls) and their parents are offended by his behavior. We ask him why he does stuff like this and he has no response, can't explain himself- whatever it is. He isn't' a bad kid, hes just so intense and most other kids are taken aback by him. To him, I think he just is having fun. He just doesn't operate at the normal kids level, which ends up with us staying on top of him the whole party to make sure he isn't destructive, but then what is the point? We aren't having fun so it we end up leaving. He is a major sensory seeking kid. He has to smell everything. Like once he put a twig in his ear and we got it out with a tweezer and he grabbed it and put it in his hands and all he could was just smell it with these long deep breaths as if it was his way of understanding what just happened to him. Did you have a conversation with him about this? For example, did you ask him if his ear was itchy, sore, plugged and not hearing well, etc? Did you show him pictures of the inner working of the human ear? Discuss ear wax? Otoscopes? Safety of not putting things in the ears? Ask him why he smelled the stick removed from his ear? -- I do ask him all sort of questions and let him know that he could really hurt his ear. We had to bring him to doctor once get a rock taken out, so to him he just likes to experience everything sensorially. He goes to a summer camp where take him to the beach at the end of the summer. The whole team of coaches came up to me afterwards and was like in 30 years of running summer camp I have never ever seen a kid enjoy the beach like your son. He doesn't just play in the sand and water, he rolls around in it and lets it covers his hair and face while he eats the sand and he is so happy. Everything has to be sensorial to him, but he's not like autistic kid; he's very much 'normal' when you meet him. He has two younger sisters and when they were both born, he takes their little bodies and holds them and caresses each body part like a tag while he sucks his thumbs. He just has to experience everything so deeply and it makes him happy. I am not sure if my first comment here made it seem like a negative thing. His sensory issues (or maybe they aren't issues) make him happy and satisfied. I just don't see other kids needing this extreme stimulation. He also puts anything in his mouth and will eat food out of the trashcan and from the floor despite his peers telling him he is gross. What type of discussions have you had with him about putting things in his mouth? About what he is thinking when he does this? About germs? We talk about putting thing in his mouth and that they are dirty, etc until the cows come home - he just can't help himself. His summer camp had a bug week and they brought in the preserved dead bugs and cockroaches, etc. All the kids were looking at them in aw and one of the camp counselors told the 80 campers that they were edible and asked if anyone wanted to eat one. Obviously most of the kids cringed and said no way, but not my son - he was the first and only to volunteer and without hesitation bit the head off a beetle. Eating beetles, things off the floor, etc have no consequence to some one like him. He finds satisfaction in it bc he needs to experience. You mention that he speaks nonchalantly about death. Has any person or pet that he was attached to died? Has he experienced the permanent loss which death brings? No one he has known has died, so its odd he is way to comfortable talking about it and understanding it w ease. I am thinking of getting him tested for giftedness as I don't have another diagnosis. People can be gifted or high IQ and also have a disability. This is called twice exceptional or 2e. I know what 23 is.. .not sure if he would be considered 2e as I don't think he has a disability unless he is ADHD. Some thoughts: - Kindergarten and 1st grade are not necessarily social skills training groups. While most children pick up on social skills by casual observation... some might say as if by osmosis... other children need or benefit from direct teaching. Here are a few of the many resources available, a brief roundup on direct teaching of social skills(body language, friendship, etc) 1) book: 100 social rules for kids (hat tip to sanne)2) direct teaching of non-verbal cues3) direct teaching of friendship 4) direct teaching of perspective taking5) link to an article on the Davidson Database, Tips For Parents: Gifted Children's Friendships6) post with roundup of articles on friendship - No, a child being disruptive is not just another way of innocently having fun. Being disruptive/destructive is offensive and shows a lack of appreciation/respect/courtesy for the rights of others... what you describe may be a deficit in "perspective taking" and/or impulse control. - A child who has not experienced the death and permanent loss of person or pet s/he was attached to, and therefore has only an intellectual knowledge of death, may seem more nonchalant about death than a child who has experienced a loss (some might say "suffered" a loss). - You will want to do websearches on "twice exceptional" and "2e", to become informed about these terms. - I agree with others that more testing would be helpful to understanding the cause(s) underlying the behaviors.
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Joined: May 2017
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OP
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@indigo - Thanks for all the information. I cleaned up the quotes from above. I think my son does have impulse control issues, which has led to the suspicion of ADHD several times.
Further testing in what areas? Like ADHD eval? I have an appt with a behaviorist this summer, so hopefully the evaluation can reveal some answers. If a gifted child has ADHD, then that is 2e, correct?
Last edited by nataliemarie; 06/07/17 01:57 PM.
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