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    Joined: Aug 2010
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    It's interesting to me that the kids in DD's gifted magnet skew very "young" (that is, not boy-crazy or interested in pop music or movies or Facebook or tweeny stuff). They are all 9 and 10. Everyone is still into Harry Potter, etc. It's one reason the school is a great fit for her. I actually think many gifted kids mature into that stuff later and stay in fantasy nerd childhood world longer. This could make it especially hard for accelerated kids at this age and is a good argument for magnets.

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    apm221 Offline OP
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    I appreciate all of the feedback and advice. I should clarify one thing. I'm not worried at all about her being unable to get a driver's license while her friends can. I was contrasting her concern (wanting not to grow up too fast) with the apparently common concern that kids will want to grow up as fast as their classmates when accelerated.

    She just turned 9, while most 4th graders here are 9 to 10.

    For those commenting about there possibly being more options when she is ready for high school, I agree completely that it isn't something we need to worry about yet. It's not something we have discussed except in trying to decide whether she should be at the charter school or at a regular school. She is now in her fourth school (for fourth grade), so it has been a challenge finding somewhere that she has felt comfortable. She was utterly miserable in kindergarten, but we were only able to get a grade skip by changing schools. She seems happy at the charter school and wants to stay there even if it makes her options for high school more difficult.

    I know a great deal about the high school options for a variety of professional reasons. I work as a college professor. Probably my profession affects my view of high school education. There are some wonderful high school teachers available; I've done professional development for them. I just don't think there is a good academic option that would fit in with her charter school work unless we can greatly increase the breadth to lower the speed. Socially, who knows... She might love it. We'll have to see.

    She does seem to get along equally well with boys and girls; she loves girly dresses, but also loves digging rocks in quarries and mines, computer geekiness, etc. One real advantage of feeling like she doesn't fit in anyway is that she doesn't seem to feel much peer pressure. She was assigned to give a presentation on, "Why we should eat turkey at Thanksgiving." Her report was titled, "Why we should eat Tofurky instead at Thankgiving." I'd be astounded if there were a single other vegetarian in her school and thought she'd never live that down (it was hard not to discourage her out of fear of teasing), but the other kids just accepted it without comment.

    I could imagine wanting to spend 20 years at college to explore all of the different options. I never liked the social aspects of college, but I loved the classes in every subject.

    She worries about all sorts of responsibilities, all of which she doesn't need to worry about yet. She worries about what sort of work to do, whether she will want to get a house, not wanting to drive, etc. She worries about the world, especially global warming. She worries about mortality and the meaning of life. So pretty much everything.

    By the way, Squishys, I wish I had thought of that siggie first... It's a great choice.

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    Driving is just one of those daft reasons people give - like if we teach her x this year what will she do next year? Worrying about stuff that hasn't even occurred to her peers comes with the territory.

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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Oh, and my DD14 has the ability to look-- and truly make others believe-- that she is anywhere from 12 to 20 years old.

    I've watched her undergo this subtle transformation more than once-- in which she goes from ~14 to ~17 in the blink of an eye without even a change of wardrobe. It's something about her body carriage, mannerisms, and way of relating to others.

    To extend the range even further, she uses her extensive wardrobe to support the role she is choosing.

    It's really a neat skill to watch-- she's playing different ages, and she's a consummate actress. smile

    Ds12 can do this as well and he's become very skilled at it since he's skipped a grade. He can adapt to his own age peers, his classmates who are a year to two years older, and he can carry on very adult like out to dinner with well-beyond-his-years humor and confidence. His voice will even deepen according to how many years older his friends are.

    Last edited by KADmom; 02/23/14 05:19 AM.
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    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    Okay. I have another very hard-to-place kiddo.

    My DD14 is a high school senior. She has just two friends who are not at least seniors in high school, and she is the youngest of them all (by a considerable margin, in fact).

    She is often stymied by their lack of emotional maturity on the one hand, but also by the social interactions that reflect growing pains on the part of those same peers (not age-mates, remember, but students 2-5y older than she is). So the hook-up-break-up, boy-crazy, drama-laced high school experience bemuses and befuddles her. She can seem a bit aloof.

    She has cherished the hope that college will be different. I don't exactly know what she means by that, but I know better than to let her think that all will be smoking jackets, library dates and deep philosophical discussion. {sigh} I've pointed out to her that the years from 17 to 23 ALSO come with enormous changes as people become adults-- and that the functional range of maturity is probably never wider than at 16-18yo. It's something that she trusts her dad and I about given the number of those students we've seen (as faculty). So no, she won't find that there is a tremendous difference once she leaves high school (and as noted, that has been frustrating to her), but that the college environment will be automatically enriched in the more mature sort, at least after the first term or two.

    She only has one friend who is driving, believe it or not (he's nearly 18 now). She knows a few other peers who have, but the friend who is driving was reluctant-- his parents insisted only because he has to commute to college classes and it was a royal pain for THEM to drive him back and forth. Most of her friends won't be ready (or aren't).

    Her circle socially is composed almost entirely of honor society type students (probably most are MG+)-- so I can't imagine what this would be like if she were evaluating what the full spectrum looks like.

    DD has just a handful of friends who are fully aware of her age and it really doesn't matter to them. Like-- REALLY doesn't matter. Those people are all probably HG-EG, that's my guess. They are SUPER-bright, and this is evident when you talk to them. But they and my DD seem "about the same" academically, when you round all the edges out, and then to take into consideration that she is 14 and they are both nearing 18... well, yeah-- that's PG.

    So yes, she has friends who can accept her the way that she is-- most of her friends are male. She has trouble making/keeping female friends in part because most of them are just interested in stuff she could care less about, and the guys aren't shallow and boy-crazed. (well, most of them arent')

    I also suspect that many of her female friends eventually (through observation) note that she has no problem befriending male peers... which might make her seem threatening... she's very pretty, and can talk to ANYONE about ANYTHING in a completely breezy/artless/glib manner. She's also seemingly "not complicated" like other girls-- which is also highly appealing to others. She seems to draw male and gender-atypical peers like moths to a flame-- being somewhat ambiguous/unusual herself, and being VERY nonjudgmental and matter-of-fact about this kind of thing with others.

    Of course, some of the boys don't really KNOW that she's a girl, so that works out nicely in the friendship department with them.

    Of course, there are others that do notice-- and this is kind of fascinating to watch, as a dynamic. It's as though you're watching someone who has just made the discovery that their puppy is actually a tiny fairy. There is a lot of blushing and blinking and gaping when the epiphany happens. DD isn't always too happy when a friend decides she'd be good girlfriend material, btw.

    Boys are less mature socially than girls as teens-- this is helpful for a geeky gifted girl who can be "one of the guys" and play Minecraft and WoW with them for hours on end, and make fart jokes, etc.

    This has been a healthy way for my (truly quite feminine!) DD to hang on to her actual age in a way that doesn't force her to compromise her identity or intelligence (much) along the way. If she were deeply interested in make-up, clothing, and boys, this might be far, far different. THEN, I suspect it would be a greater challenge. I was a girl like that. Well, sort of. I was VERY VERY sad when all of my friends graduated two years before me and left me languishing in high school. Just fyi.

    Every child is different, though-- I don't know that this is really advice so much as anecdote. We're still living it. DD occasionally bemoans the fact that she will bypass some rites of passage by virtue of age alone-- and that she probably won't be old enough to VOTE until she has a bachelor's degree. This incenses her because SHE actually cares and has passionate interest in politics and social justice. wink Her friends will (mostly) be eligible to vote in the upcoming presidential campaign. She also still finds physical romantic impulses directed at her to be kind of squicky. She is the perfect geek-boy's girl, but she is equal parts perfect and perfectly unattainable.


    It's a mixed up series of things.

    Most of what DD objects to about feeling "rushed" is that while she wants to do ALL of the things she is interested in, the further she goes academically, the greater the pressure to "choose The One Thing," and being globally gifted, she can't bear to. Certainly that's not an appropriate thing for a 14yo to be thinking about... but it has to be (on some level) when that 14yo is looking at colleges. KWIM?


    She has sometimes wanted the following things:

    a) that Nirvana where she could be PRECISELY who and what she is, all day, every day. Both 14 and interested in college-level discussions of politics and literature and physics and--and--and.

    b) to have about 20 years at college, so that she can TRULY explore what she wants to do with that extraordinary brain of hers. This way she won't have to narrow things down to just two or three majors, see...


    Sadly, neither thing will come to pass. Oh well.

    Your dd is fortunate to have a mother who so fully understands and appreciates her.

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    apm221,

    Our ds12 skipped 6th grade this year. We were concerned because he's still a bit innocent--not naive, but more in the lines of if he's with a certain gifted friend he still likes to play pretend and build starships out of refrigerator boxes. He didn't really fit in comfortably with his same age peers. He wasn't bullied or even picked on, but I noticed he could never be truly himself and he felt isolated. In this new grade, he's met a few kids that are more like him in the geek department and are at least MG. I think he'd really prefer to be with even older kids, but for now this is the best we can do. I think when you have kids like ours it takes a long time, maybe until adulthood, for them to find their people.

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    apm221 Offline OP
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    Squishys,
    Yes, that's where the numbers came from! I was trying to think of a random number to make up an id (I wanted it to be random because I wouldn't want anyone from my daughter's schools to see me discussing them and be offended when there have been people there who really tried to help us). The quote applies to me as well! I'm also originally from Australia (referring to your location not to the quote).

    Thanks, everyone, for the advice and for giving me somewhere to talk about it.

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    I think the puberty thing is an issue. Having skipped with a few other kids, I wasn't alone, but I was also later than most peers, so this is something all go through.

    And I agree that there should be some kids her age. My DD is in a 4/5 split with a fall bday so she is 9 in grade 4 without a skip, allowed to do 5th grade work.

    And DD still wants to do little girl stuff like playing outside so there are kids who do, though few, and since it is a gifted class, she has some peers, though she is on the higher side of IQ and the only one doing above grade level work.

    I also agree that the license thing is a non issue, though maybe for boys. I was in grade 12 when I turned 16.


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    Originally Posted by puffin
    ... the friends thing is related to what causes acceleration not to the acceleration itself.
    and
    Quote
    ... one of those daft reasons people give - like if we teach her x this year what will she do next year? Worrying about stuff that hasn't even occurred to her peers comes with the territory.
    I agree. While it may be good to think about and consider what may lie ahead to help us prepare for the journey, what may be a mountain to one student or family may be a molehill to another.

    The Iowa Acceleration Scale, for example, lists out a number of items for a student, family, and school to consider about full-grade acceleration (grade skipping). Each item may be weighted differently by different stakeholders, and the combined viewpoints provide for meaningful discussion.

    Because the 2014 Winter Olympics are occurring, here is a random analogy related to skiing: If one ski is social and one is academics, a person may keep balance by shifting their weight from one to another effectively, navigating gates and moguls. Keeping the upper body quiet/still may be the emotional piece and reveal how well one is keeping their balance at any given moment. Snow conditions may not be favorable but as many skiers pointed out in interviews, each other skier is also dealing with the difficult conditions. A few skiers even fell and slid across the finish line. Good sportsmanship allows skiers to congratulate others on their wins, while remembering that tomorrow is another day with new challenges.

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    Well-stated.

    It's not really fair to compare the conditions (growing up HG+ and parenting HG+) to ideal conditions.

    That's really what most people are doing as they discuss the PROBLEM side in absence of the considerations for the cost of pursuing that course for someone who isn't normative in other ways.

    It's like pointing out to someone who is using ramps and elevators to accommodate juvenile RA, well, studies show this, that, and the other thing relative to physical fitness in adults, etc. How "habits are formed in childhood" and that using the elevator is a bad idea.

    crazy

    It's not the situation that person is living with. Ignoring those who are ignorant about the underlying circumstances which are dictating less-than-normative choices is probably a better course of action. smile


    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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