Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Angry And Irritable 5 year old DS - Help!

Dp

Change the afternoon. Drop the nap (I am surprised he is asleep before midnight). Replace it with exercise, homework, tea, bath then bed at 7.30.

My 4 year old can take several hours to go to sleep. If he napped later than 2 (up by 2 )or for more than an hour after his second birthday he would have been awake until 11 or 12.

I agree with puffin; but also, I suggest dropping the melatonin (tapering it perhaps, rather than stopping at once, if you've been giving it daily). I know it's regarded in some places as utterly benign, but in others it's not available at all or never recommended for children - given that you're seeing issues that might be caused by, rather than ameliorated by, it, I'd get it out of the equation asap.

Totally agree with this - it's no wonder he can't get to sleep at night when he sleeps until 6pm! Both of my boys couldn't get to sleep at night if they napped at all during the day starting at around 3 years old.

I guess this is maybe what's missing. Ds has always needed a lot of sleep. At three he would take 3 1/2 - 2 1/2 hour naps everyday waking up at his own internal timing in the morning. No melatonin.
Even on weekends, by 2 or 3 in the afternoon he is tired and needs a nap. Especially if its been a busy day. He may sleep until 8 am and still need a nap. He needs the sleep. It's not that he always has issues falling asleep. We've cut the naps back from 4-5:30. We tried no nap and he'd fall asleep in the car. One day he started to fall asleep at school after recess when they turn the lights down. Without a nap he was falling to sleep on the couch at 6:00 or 6:30. It's really hard to work with. His little body needs 12-13 hours. That's just him. On the weekends we don't give melatonin at all. But he still sleeps a lot. The dr was the one who mentioned melatonin to us.
And on the weekends when he wakes up at 8 has a 2 hour nap at 2 or 3 pm and is asleep at 8:30 he is a much easier kid to handle. Much less hyper, much better mood, seems much happier.

Do you maybe need a development pediatrician (perhaps at a local children's hospital or elsewhere) assess your DS?

Strongly agree with other responses... nap plus meds to sleep not a good idea.

I guess we can try no nap, but I'll have to have dinner ready at 5:00. We won't be able to do any excercise (other than outdoors if its nice.) Well be home at 3:30, he'll eat a snack and then he'll have homework. I think he'll be out by 6:00 or 6:30 again, if he doesn't fall asleep on the couch before that. And he won't get to see his daddy at all during the week.

You can try adjusting the sleep times more gradually, for example, cut the nap by 15 minutes and bring bedtime earlier by the say amount. Do that for 3-5 days, then reduce the nap by another 15 and move bedtime up that amount. We have had really good luck with this approach when we needed to adjust the boys' sleep schedules. One thing we have found is that longer night sleep can be more restorative than naps and a shorter sleep at night. At age five, our relatively high sleep needs son was usually out by 7:15 and up by 7. If he was really tired, he might be out by 7 at night. We do pretty short bath and bedtime routines.

Emotions can be felt very deeply at this age, in our experience. What does he say or do about the reasons for his anger?

My DD also needs a lot of sleep. She required 12-13 hours at age 5. Now at age 8 she needs 10.5 which is still really hard with working parents and the homework load plus 1 extracurricular. In reality 10.5 means sleeping at 8:30 and up at 7:00. she really needs up at 6;30 when we are both working and she will never be able to be asleep by 8:00. It always shows in her mood/behavior (along with her need for regular snacks/food).

I would try to get rid of the melatonin, but I'd do whatever needed to get enough sleep. Kids who need sleep need sleep, otherwise no one is happy. I'd also discuss sleep needs with pediatrician, but if you look at research, most kids don't get enough sleep. Gifted kids often don't need as much sleep as others…but not always.

good luck!

Just curious, how much homework does he have and is it even worthwhile? Five is really young to go to school all day and then have more busywork at night, imo. Maybe he's mad about that... I would have been. :-)