Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Please help me choose Out of District Placement

It's not just they can't relate to what you are considering - just he act of considering will make some people feel judged, unconsciously or consciously they think you are doing something they would never consider so they are giving you all the reasons why it's a bad idea. Lots of people thought we were nuts - we thought choosing a yard and a big kitchen over my DS never having peers or learning anything in school and still having to be there for 7 hours was nuts. but since most of our "friends" would not see him as he really was because they felt it said something about their kids or their parenting. We chose his sanity over our comfort.

Cost is always an issue - and your attachment to your current home - but also how long she will need this school. Everyone here always says don't plan long term because things change but your situation is different - living a part for a year or two with hope of mainstreaming her is very different than if she will need this school long term. Because if this is where she needs to be until she graduates HS, then selling and moving and having DS commute is the only feasible option that keeps the family together. But you don't have to decide that now, you could try the school, make sure it is what you hoped it would be and then relocate.

And I apologize if this is overstepping, feels like I am psychoanalyzing you, but it seems to me that having won what you wanted for DD, suddenly your DH and you are getting cold feet for what it will mean for you both.

DeHe

With DH splitting his time in both places as work schedule allows, that starts to sound kind of okay, though still a massive adjustment.


Yep. That's a professional opinion to be factored in. But not the only opinion.

When I suggested the "live between" thing, I had forgotten about maintaining residence to keep the OOD deal. How much does 2E school cost outright? Could one potentially live between as one household, pay the school, and thereby keep everyone together? Do they have any kind of financial aid? Just trying to consider all possibles.


Why? Because he would be the one doing the commute, and could read on the train?

Sounds like he is in favor of this plan, despite being apart?

Pemb, one thing nobody has discussed yet is YOU. Do you have a work life or other activities that will be disrupted? You do get to factor in here.

DeeDee

Very true. My mom once said, "if you hate it, you can quit." Useful to remember as you dive into something big, no matter which option you choose.

DeeDee

2E school is $50k per year - no financial aid. Parents have been "ridiculously successful" in getting it paid for by Major City dept of ed. They have only been open 3 years and next year is the first they are expecting families to enroll their kids and commute the way we are considering. When we were in for our interview they told us the previous day another commuting family was in (same state, though, but traveling almost as far as we would from neighboring state.) They also said that the next week they were expecting a family in from Switzerland. We met one parent from another neighboring state but I assume that family lived in "normal" commuting distance and the kid went home every evening. While the tuition is high it is not too far off what super high income families are paying for private schools there. It is way, WAY more than private school tuition here though. Not an option to pay it out of pocket...

DH is dead set on the 2E school. He was REALLY angry yesterday at the way DD and I were treated. I am willing to be treated badly if that's the price to be paid for getting DD what she needs. He is less willing to see his wife treated badly to achieve that. Does that make sense? He is quite comfortable in Major City and would have no problem with the weekly commute. He would actually love to spend time living there - as an art professor there are endless ways for him to spend his time productively. In a weird way it would also be easier for him to deal with living with his mother in law than for me to live with my mother. None of this is insurmountable - just uncomfortable.

Dealing with DD's situation has been my full-time job. I have many friends and a good support network but that is less important than getting DD what she needs. I have quite a few friends in Major City but I can't expect any of them to drop what they are doing to help me settle in and feel comfortable.

Going to the 2E school would mean signing a one year contract. All but $2500 refundable by September 1. All but $5000 by October 1. After that the contract is locked. We can't just say "Sorry. Not working. Changed our minds."

My thinking is along the lines of "Where can she be this time next year?" This past school year was a total waste of time. She made some progress with reading but as far as we can see none as far as math is concerned. My hope was the focus would be getting her up to speed on keyboarding and/or voice-to-text. They so utterly dropped the ball on the AT stuff, though, that she only had a few weeks of limited instruction with her iPad. That's where looking at local options came from. If either of the local options can focus intently on getting her independent in terms of some form of writing (by hand, keyboard or dictation) and stronger in terms of her reading then next year we may have more options available to us. We could have a better idea of whether lovely little private could be an option. Or homeschooling. Or transferring to a different school district. Right now those options won't work. But since this is the focus this year the 2Eness is less of an issue than it might be in future years. I am sure cold feet is part of it but its not the only thing. At least I don't think it is...

Sounds as though you *could* say, we'll try this for a year, and see how we are all doing as a family at the end of that year.

You wouldn't go back to public schools where you are anyhow, I am thinking, but after a year you will know in your bones whether 2E school is worth the effort, or not, and what DD needs then. The needs will change, that is certain.


No, but you could say "this is the only year we're doing this; it was an experiment; off to try the next thing." It would not be a permanent move; it would be a trial.


Does 2E school have specialties in this area? Because I agree; once you've remediated the core issues, other placements would become possible, though I find it likely that she will need some kinds of support for a while, and understanding by teachers and admins for the long term.


True. But in #2, you have no guarantee that they would do what you think she needs. Would #3 work properly on AT use and keyboarding etc.? Do they have a lot of kids who need that?


I get your point and I'm with you here: for us, the disabilities were biggest in early elementary, and the giftedness took a back seat. At some point around late 4th-5th, the giftedness started driving the bus for DS (disability still a huge factor but more like a co-factor). The remediation should be a serious priority.

Yet-- to what extent does your DD need gifted peers? Is that important to her, or not? How about instruction at her level-- will she be sad or depressed if that doesn't happen, or okay to just do school and participate? This is so kid-dependent.

DeeDee

DD is a highly social kid. She wants to be with other kids and has learned to "leave my vocabulary at home." Yesterday at the intake interview she would NOT show director her vocabulary or knowledge base. "It was great. I loved all of it. I can't think of anything in particular. It was all just great." REFUSED to show any of her skills. I thought that was really interesting.

In both local schools she would be at the low end of multi-age classrooms. Since there will be peers 3-4 grades above her in the class I think she may have the opportunity for some gifted support even if the schools are not really designed for it. If the whole class is talking about a particular topic it won't be odd for her to explore it in a more advanced way. Of course the 5th or 6th grade peers may not be operating at grade level but that's a different story.

Another consideration - and I appreciate you giving the chance to think out loud here - is to go for option #3 since it's the school the district recommends. Since this year can focus on her LD issues it would not be a great sacrifice. If/when it doesn't work (and with those kids bouncing off the wall it is hard for us to imagine it working... ) we say "Not only is the district unable to meet her needs you were also unable to select an appropriate OOD placement. Now we do it our way. Now she goes to the school that specializes in kids with her profile. " They will have absolutely no defense left. We will have cooperated and tried it their way. That school seems sincere about trying to meet her needs. We will need to pin them down more specifically on their AT program and have the psych weigh in on the effect of those "distracting" kids but it's possible that this is the one year where it could be ok to try. The biggest drawback would be if 2E school filled up and we lost her spot before we could enroll her. If we did it this way I would also be convinced that we tried literally everything before uprooting her. Psychologically I think that's important.

Hmmmm.


Did you get to observe classrooms in #3? Are the ED kids mixed into the classrooms, or working in pullout situations? How does the school handle the mix of anxious kids with ED kids (who sometimes tend to be explosive and seem frightening to a kid who's anxious)?

Your DD's history of anxiety may make #3 a challenging placement in that regard. If she found the ADHD kids distracting on her visit, that seems important; how well will she actually learn in this environment? If you are thinking of next year as "the super-productive year where she masters AT and gets her math and reading on track" then a distracting or scary environment would be a non-starter. What did you see on the visit?

I'm not skeptical yet, BTW, just asking the question.


OTOH, you just spent two godawful years trying to make schools work. There is something to be said for shooting for the placement you and DH deem most likely to succeed at this point. Whether the distance means it really won't succeed is not mine to guess... but you don't really want another year of poor fit. (I hope your DD doesn't think this is all her fault somehow...)


I know she's anxious (weighs against uprooting); but kids usually bounce into new situations better than adults do. Assuming you can find a new dance studio, and that a few friends will be found in the new school, and that old friends can be visited on weekends-- does the possibility of school actually fitting mitigate the (presumably temporary) stress of uprooting and the (longer term) logistical burden? Would school fitting lessen her personal stress at all?

Again, I'm not trying to argue for #3, just asking the question. Let me know if you want me to stop poking at you...

DeeDee

Please poke away! Your insights are invaluable!

As I said no one in real life can truly understand the situation. I am relying heavily on input from the folks here. I hope no one will be shy about telling me their true opinions on this. I am truly looking for as much input as I can get.

By the way all 3 schools say that they do not accept explosive or aggressive kids. #3 has several kids with selective mutism. They also have a special program for highly anxious kids who are trying to transition back from homebound tutoring situations. DD's anxiety therefore would be far from the most extreme. DD came home saying that she "made a friend" in just the one day. Apparently one of the disruptive kids hadn't taken his medication on the day she visited so his behavior was supposedly worse than usual. As one of my RL friends pointed out ADHD kids are everywhere - they are probably even more likely at spec ed placements. She could experience the same sort of behavior at either of the other school too. But yes, what we saw when we visited #3 concerned us. A lot.

Is your daughter the type that might feel more comfortable if she spent some time learning about the issues other students have?

I know there are books at our library with titles like "My friend has ADHD"

Putting my hand up as another whose child was in a very different place by 4-5 grade. In fact mid yr 5 we moved her from a high end private school, where she'd had amazing support, to the local public, where she got absolutely no support at all. While academically she's no longer progressing at the speed she was at the private (making double the typical progress of her normal peers yr 3-5, in all areas), she is keeping up mostly ok. She still has issues, she's going to have life long issues, but its different to what lower primary was like.

Now I'm guessing that maybe somewhere you've talked about why you can't possibly homeschool, I find it hard to search on my phone sorry. But I'm unconvinced that you may not be the best teacher your child could have. My eldest is far from PG, but she is gifted, with extremely poor WM, dyslexia, CAPD & Aspergers. When she was 7, in yr 2, and still hadn't mastered the alphabet I didn't feel like I knew how to help, so homeschooling never really occurred to me, but looking back I was the most important reading teacher she had, that and TIME. I had no idea about phonics, I didn't know any of the decoding rules at all (no wonder I had such trouble learning to read and spell myself!), I had to learn how to teach reading, and I'm pretty sure I could teach almost any kid to read now if I had to. My interventions with math made far more difference than the special Ed she was receiving. Yes school put in a lot of effort and absolutely helped her, but I don't believe she would have made the progress she made without me and I do believe we could have gotten to the same place without the school. This is my child who took three (incredibly stressful) years to learn the most basic literacy skills: reliably recognizing the whole alphabet and being able to name by sound and name, plus reading readers to about end of K / mid yr 1 level took her until end of yr 2, mos of the progress in yr 2. By end of year 4 she was reading at yr 6-8 level (for non fiction), but still couldn't spell. By mid yr 6 her reading is years ahead, her spelling is supposedly age normal, her reading aloud still isn't great... I could not ever have imagined how far she's come 4 years ago, when I was battling daily for her to even look at the page of a book.

My second child has a hand writing disability, last year I was told to be happy if she grew up able to sign her name and tick boxes, and that she'd need full time keyboarding by yr3 at the latest. Last week she saw the OT again and she's now writing not just ahead of age, but ahead of grade (she's skipped) for speed, neatness, proportion. Her pen control is 2.2 SDs above age. She'll probably still need keyboard provisions as she may never have the strength for producing volumes at speed. But if it had been left to her teachers or even the best OT in our city, the conclusion was that her problems were either unimportant (teacher) or unfixable (children's OT and adult hand specialist OT). She can write now because I was determined to teach her and because she's HG+... Her hands haven't improved much at all and probably never will.

I'm not saying my kids' problems are the same as your DD, or on the same scale, but only that every day I am more convinced there is no-one more likely to understand or subsequently overcome their issues than me. We don't homeschool either of them right now, for various reasons, though we are getting ever closer to homeschooling our middle girl, but we absolutely are the ones most responsible for remediating their problem areas. Even at the awesome private school, with all the resources, neither of them could have made the progress they have without what I researched and implemented a home.

TIME and retular practice with a smart person who is always analyzing and thinking outside the box about what might help change the current pattern/problem is not to be underestimated.