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    Originally Posted by dv8
    I do get a little confused on what it means that kids with aspergers have great reading skills but little comprehension.


    I once tested a middle school student with autism who recognized words and read aloud like a high school student, but answered comprehension questions like a second grader. A big part of the issue with autistic students is that they might answer the first question or two correctly, but later questions are answered out of their own experience or imagination instead of the story.

    In general, formal assessments for autistic students are of limited use. You might accidentally find out they can do something you didn't know they could do. But between the accommodations you have to make in order to just get through the test, and behaviors like perseverating during a timed portion, the results won't have much statistical meaning and won't tell you anything about what they can't do.

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    Regarding social skills, he is behind. Social skills don't come intuitively to him as they do to my younger child. DS has friends - particularly a little girl who is a bit of a tomboy and he seem to get along great and do playdates and hang out together at the afterschool program. If someone else has similar interests to his he gets very animated and engaged, but if there's no one around who's interested in what he's interested in, he's happy to be off by himself doing his own thing.

    But regarding unusual and intense interests he doesn't exactly fit aspergers. He does intensely investigate and learn as much as he can about a topic, but the subjects change every month or so (although we do revisit astronomy related topics fairly frequently) and he doesn't generally talk about any of these topics excessively.

    I've read as much as I can about Aspergerger's and ADHD inattentive type in gifted kids as well as profoundly gifted kids behavior (not that he has the scores for that). It seems to me that the line separating these diagnoses gets very fuzzy in gifted kids. I do try to keep in mind the DSM criteria for actual diagnosis and I think based on DSM criteria, he qualifies for ADHD inattentive, but not Aspergers....but he definitely falls somewhere on the spectrum, and has high anxiety.


    I decided to have him evaluated by someone familiar with gifted and 2e kids (Amend), because it's not my place as his mom to diagnose him (I'm a doctor so I have a tendency to diagnose things on my own).

    I really appreciate hearing your thoughts, it helps me clarify my own

    DeeDee thanks for the tidbit regarding meltdowns being anxiety related in your son, I think that mixed with perfectionism may be a significant part of the meltdowns we are having.




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    Good luck with the testing. I know not everyone agrees, but I don't think the official label always matters very much. What matters is finding what works for your kid. Perhaps he does fall on the Asperger's spectrum, but if all he needs is anxiety meds and some counseling to get him to a happy place, that's the primary goal.

    Last edited by epoh; 11/22/11 08:02 AM.

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    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    At the same time, give the list of issues to the school (in writing) and ask them for a full educational evaluation. They'll look at slightly different things than the outside eval will, and you'll put it all together and come up with a plan for school.


    What kind of list of issues? my concerns about not ideal situations in the classroom (25 kids, no desks - a little much for a kid with attention and sensory issues), or behaviorial issues I see in my DS that need to improve to function optimally?

    What does a full educational evaluation entail? What things do they look at?

    We are meeting next Tuesday to make a plan on what to do next time he has a meltdown. It might be a good time to request something like a full educatonal evaluation when we have everyone in one room.



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    Originally Posted by epoh
    Good luck with the testing. I know not everyone agrees, but I don't think the official label always matters very much. What matters is finding what works for your kid. Perhaps he does fall on the Asperger's spectrum, but if all he needs is anxiety meds and some counseling to get him to a happy place, that's the primary goal.

    I agree. Labels are useful for funding, for getting services, sometimes directing treatment and for a little understanding from school officials etc. But labels are limiting. They put people in a box and limit what others think they are capable of and that can affect what our children think they are capable of too. That is the dilemma isn't it?

    I really appreciate everyone's input Thank you so much!





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    Originally Posted by dv8
    If someone else has similar interests to his he gets very animated and engaged, but if there's no one around who's interested in what he's interested in, he's happy to be off by himself doing his own thing.

    But regarding unusual and intense interests he doesn't exactly fit aspergers. He does intensely investigate and learn as much as he can about a topic, but the subjects change every month or so (although we do revisit astronomy related topics fairly frequently) and he doesn't generally talk about any of these topics excessively.

    Mine rotates interests frequently-- I'm not sure if that's a gifted/AS trait or just the kid I have.

    I'd say that the special interest aspect can also be expressed negatively: a child without AS can make himself be or seem interested in something in order to get along with others or please a teacher. But my kid with AS cannot feign interest in something he doesn't care about, no matter what the stakes are. We work on this.

    Originally Posted by dv8
    It seems to me that the line separating these diagnoses gets very fuzzy in gifted kids. I do try to keep in mind the DSM criteria for actual diagnosis and I think based on DSM criteria, he qualifies for ADHD inattentive, but not Aspergers....but he definitely falls somewhere on the spectrum, and has high anxiety.

    If you see an experienced neuropsych who deals extensively with bright kids, they should be able to tease this out for you. It's what they do.

    More in a minute on your other post--
    DeeDee

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    Originally Posted by dv8
    What kind of list of issues? my concerns about not ideal situations in the classroom (25 kids, no desks - a little much for a kid with attention and sensory issues), or behaviorial issues I see in my DS that need to improve to function optimally?

    The best book for this is From Emotion to Advocacy-- they have sample letters for requesting evaluations.

    I'd write a letter to the principal, copied to the district's intervention services/special ed office, detailing the meltdown problem and any other behavioral issues (social, attention) that you see. And ask them for a complete educational evaluation, using the template in From Emotion to Advocacy.

    I'd also ask them to take data on the meltdowns in order to develop a plan to prevent them.

    An educational eval depends on what issues you are seeing. If his pencil grip were weird, the OT would see him; if gross motor, the PT. For anxiety/behavioral issues there should be teacher and parent survey checklists plus a detailed classroom evaluation. They are likely to do IQ and achievement testing to look for LDs, if there's any indication that might be there.

    I'd put the social skills on the list because if it's a real problem, you want to get the school to work on it in an eventual IEP, and you can't get it in the IEP if they didn't test for it. So at this stage you make the list cover everything that you have thought could be a problem.

    You're not likely to get much traction on the problem of 25 kids in a class, but you might get him preferential seating and other accommodations.

    Originally Posted by dv8
    We are meeting next Tuesday to make a plan on what to do next time he has a meltdown. It might be a good time to request something like a full educatonal evaluation when we have everyone in one room.

    If you don't make the request in writing, it can be like it never happened. A verbal request has no legal standing. The written letter starts a clock on them to get the job done: I think they have 60 school days, which is plenty long enough if your kid is having meltdowns.

    Originally Posted by epoh
    Good luck with the testing. I know not everyone agrees, but I don't think the official label always matters very much. What matters is finding what works for your kid. Perhaps he does fall on the Asperger's spectrum, but if all he needs is anxiety meds and some counseling to get him to a happy place, that's the primary goal.

    I disagree with this. If you don't know what you're dealing with, you probably won't choose the right meds or the right counseling/therapy help. And that sort of thing matters. Talk therapy is totally ineffective for AS, for instance, but could work for other problems.

    Originally Posted by dv8
    Labels are useful for funding, for getting services, sometimes directing treatment and for a little understanding from school officials etc. But labels are limiting. They put people in a box and limit what others think they are capable of and that can affect what our children think they are capable of too. That is the dilemma isn't it?

    My experience says this: it is no fun to have a kid who sticks out because of unwanted behaviors (meltdowns being example 1 on my personal list). On the other hand, it is much nicer to have a kid whom teachers and peers understand and can accept-- he's melting down because of his Asperger's-- as opposed to the non-diagnostic labels of "weirdo" or "from an undisciplined family" or worse, which are applied to these children if you don't offer your community another explanation.

    If your DS hasn't already, he will likely soon notice that other children do not have meltdowns, and he does. It is better to have an explanation for him (e.g. "you have anxiety, which means...") than let him think that he's the only one with no self-control, he can't behave, he's a bad person, which is the main alternative message available. The label can offer understanding and empowerment, in addition to services.

    I wouldn't worry for a second about labeling my child under these circumstances, which we have experienced firsthand.

    DeeDee

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    DeeDee,

    I do really appreciate your thoughts. Obviously you've been there and done it. Without a doubt our sons are very similar! I do appreciate hearing your experiences. I'm looking forward to hearing the neuropsych eval (have been needing to hear it for a long long time). I've worked though enough on this journey to be ok with any diagnosis at this time. I just haven't felt our local psychologist has enough experience with gifted kids to feel that they're the best person to evaluate him.

    He already knows he thinks differently than the rest of the kids in his class, but we've really reinforced how that generally is a good thing (at least IMHO as you might guess from my screen name). A well meaning teacher loaned him the book "odd boy out" and for better or worse, it got a discussion going about being different from other kids.

    Thanks for the info on educational eval. I'll look into it over the weekend.




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