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Joined:  Jun 2010 Posts: 1,457 Member |  
|   Member Joined:  Jun 2010 Posts: 1,457 | 
I'd put the balance with my own five-year-old kid close to 50% nature, 50% nurture.  That's a complete guess, of course.  I believe strongly that nurture plays a much larger role than many here assign to it.
 Of course, it's obvious to me that some high levels of certain skills can't be attained by a person with any amount of training; I often label these "savant-type talents".  For memory, this would include such things as memorizing the entire London skyline at a glance (Stephen Wiltshire), memorizing whole pages of the phone book at a glance (John von Neumann), etc.
 
 I think, though, that there are many kinds of skills where savant-type skills would not be possible, or would not be highly relevant, only giving one a sort of boost.  I don't think that being a numeric savant who can calculate pi to any arbitrary place in one's head, for example, really gives one much of a boost in higher math reasoning ability, nor would memorizing math textbooks at a glance.  Memory of course is a special area that can increase one's ability on a myriad of tasks, but I suspect that for a great many tasks one could be well enough off with the type of memory enhancements that come with practice that a savant's memory would again not be the prime determining factor in maximum achievement potential.  For other tasks (winning Jeopardy, drawing things precisely from memory, etc.) a savant-type memory might help quite a bit.
 
 I remain convinced that for most types of skills that really matter to the human race (research etc.), a person with fairly average biological attributes could be trained to the level of being a "genius" as that term is generally used by the public-- primarily a person who is observed to make great discoveries, or otherwise change the world in a significant way.  I believe you can train someone into having an indomitable spirit, incredible focus, amazing problem-solving abilities, the whole nine yards.  Of course, a John von Neumann type, trained "perfectly", would quite likely be ahead of the average-starting-point person in a number of ways due to her or his gifts.
 
Last edited by Iucounu; 02/23/11 07:59 AM.
 
Striving to increase my rate of flow, and fight forum gloopiness.
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| Entire Thread |  
 
|    Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | kickball | 02/21/11 12:44 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Chrys | 02/21/11 01:31 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | kimck | 02/21/11 01:58 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | MagnaSky | 02/21/11 02:10 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Chrys | 02/21/11 02:17 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | MagnaSky | 02/21/11 02:29 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 02/21/11 03:26 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Chrys | 02/21/11 02:21 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | JJsMom | 02/21/11 03:19 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | AlexsMom | 02/21/11 03:25 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | JJsMom | 02/21/11 08:17 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | st pauli girl | 02/21/11 09:13 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | MagnaSky | 02/21/11 01:48 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Chrys | 02/21/11 01:52 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | kaibab | 02/21/11 01:56 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 02/21/11 02:09 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Dandy | 02/21/11 08:18 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | ColinsMum | 02/21/11 08:40 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 02/21/11 09:17 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | AlexsMom | 02/21/11 03:18 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | ColinsMum | 02/21/11 04:20 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 02/21/11 07:40 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Bostonian | 02/21/11 12:46 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | ColinsMum | 02/21/11 02:22 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Edwin | 02/21/11 05:57 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | vicam | 02/21/11 06:55 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | AlexsMom | 02/21/11 07:59 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 02/21/11 10:33 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | ColinsMum | 02/22/11 10:06 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 02/22/11 04:11 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | ColinsMum | 02/22/11 06:02 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | HowlerKarma | 02/22/11 06:27 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 02/22/11 06:42 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | st pauli girl | 02/22/11 07:43 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | kaibab | 02/23/11 12:03 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | kaibab | 02/22/11 11:40 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | HowlerKarma | 02/21/11 09:36 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | kickball | 02/22/11 04:28 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | BWBShari | 02/22/11 05:47 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | HowlerKarma | 02/22/11 08:12 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | kickball | 02/22/11 08:51 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | st pauli girl | 02/22/11 09:05 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | La Texican | 02/22/11 10:04 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | La Texican | 02/22/11 10:55 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Giftodd | 02/23/11 12:33 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | DeHe | 02/23/11 01:15 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | ColinsMum | 02/23/11 10:50 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | La Texican | 02/23/11 02:26 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Iucounu | 02/23/11 02:54 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | BWBShari | 02/23/11 04:23 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Bostonian | 03/01/11 05:58 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Iucounu | 03/01/11 06:32 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | HowlerKarma | 02/23/11 08:12 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Iucounu | 02/23/11 09:54 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | HowlerKarma | 02/24/11 05:33 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 03/01/11 08:12 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | La Texican | 03/02/11 11:41 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | HowlerKarma | 02/23/11 08:37 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Grinity | 03/01/11 09:04 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | eldertree | 03/01/11 01:22 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | La Texican | 03/01/11 06:10 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | La Texican | 03/01/11 06:20 AM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Wren | 03/01/11 03:03 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | La Texican | 03/01/11 06:19 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | HowlerKarma | 03/01/11 08:58 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Val | 03/01/11 09:46 PM |  
|    Re: Outliers, Tiger Moms, and Nature | Wren | 03/02/11 09:36 PM |  |  | 
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