Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy DS MUST go on field trip

So I am stumped. Help me please wise parents! DS7 has a field trip next week. (He is partially homeschooled.) He doesn't want to go on the field trip. So, I didn't send in his permission slip. Three separate staff members have called DH and I to find out why DS isn't going and to tell us that he "must" go. The principal even pulled DS out of art to question him. She told him that he "must" go on the trip. What is this all about? The only answer I get is that field trip are important "educational events".

That sounds weird. Can you tell us where it is (without giving away too much information about yourself)?

I know that I was looking into a school that had a really big focus on field trips and parents had to be OK with the kids going on overnight trips. It was a big part of the school. But it sounds like this isn't something like that...

It's a trip to a nature center. DS has already BTDT at this particular place. He is not opposed to field trips. He'd just rather have a full homeschool day that day.

That is weird. I'd be tempted to sign the slips and then call him out absent that day - kids get sick! I always offer my DS the option of opting out of school trips DS has never taken me up on it but if he did, I wouldn't even bother telling the school we choose not to go, I'd just call him out.

The school can't legally compel your child to attend. It's a bit creepy that they're paying your decision so much attention. Why are four adult professionals so personally invested in whether a 7yo attends a day trip to a nature center?

Maybe they've got 99 others going and they need 100 to get a group discount.

Maybe someone is keeping statistics on field trips and the school wants to boost their numbers.

Maybe they'll get a little more money if your kid goes on the trip (and is on the school clock).

Maybe if they make it optional for anyone, then they have to make it optional for everyone, and they don't want to do that for some reason.

I have absolutely no idea. It's very bizarre that they're so secretive about their real reasons.

there's a reason why it's called a PERMISSION slip ... no permission, no field trip. "must" is not an answer. If they don't have any better answer than that, why even bother with them.

I still can't figure any of this out. But now I am compelled to get to the bottom of it! This school often operates in a bizarre way. So, this weird situation is not so weird for them. The principal kind of freaked DS out though. She really grilled him and he didn't understand what the issue was.

Is it because he will still be at school that day but not on the trip so they are wondering what to do with him? or will you be keeping home? Maybe that's their concern?

He will be at home.

Okay, well, I am quite stumped myself. Creepy indeed. How odd!

How do you usually deal with their weirdness?

Or have they risen to a whole new level of weirdness?

I have had schools go weird on me that my child needs to do x or y because of his socialization. Could it be something along those lines. They think he NEEDS the experience going on the bus, following directions, etc..

Another possibility for their odd behavior. Are they asking for a donation for the trip? Field trips are one of the few things schools in my area can still ask for $$ to help defray the cost. Yet, they don't want to deny any child the ability to go on the field trip. So if I child a parent didn't return the money & permission slip the school might assume it was because a parent couldn't pay and didn't want to say.

MK is quite right -- if you have to sign a permission slip for him to attend, then obviously it isn't a "must". That's what permission slips are about!

Our school has assignments associated with at least some field trips -- DS11 went on the 7th grade field trip to the dam when he was in 5th grade (because he was taking classes in several grades and wormed his way into all the field trips) and then this past year when he was actually IN 7th grade, he chose instead to go to his track meet that day and missed it, and he had a zero for the assignment of writing up water test results. But if the grade for a possible assignment doesn't bother you or him, I see no reason he "has" to go.

DD freaked out this past year about the 2nd grade trip to the science museum, but I knew it was just fear of the unknown and made her go anyway -- of course, as I knew she would, she liked it.

Stick to your guns, or if it's not a battle worth fighting up front, do as someone else suggested and sign the slip and then keep him home anyway. What can they do?

Sign the slip and call him in sick that day.

If there is no permission slip returned, then it means that the parent does not want the child to go. They might be calling you because the only reason that they could come up with for the lack of permisssion slip is that you forgot - some people cannot understand that you might not be interested in something so wonderful as a school offered field trip

Usually if people don't return a permission slip it is because they forgot or the kid never gave it to the parent so it could just be that. If the trip is on a day he is usually at school maybe they are worried about what to do with him if they don't know you are happy to have him home. Perhaps the next month's worth of lessons are going to be based on the trip. I would approach the teacher myself and ask what is going on.

Thanks for the feedback all. Oh don't worry - I have no problem sticking to my guns. I was just asking y'all because I thought someone might have some insight. It's rather weird the whole situation. We'll see how it unfolds.

We look forward to updates. What a fun topic!

If a student here has a certain number of unexcused absences, like 10 or 14, or tardies (if a child is even one minute late they mark it as a tardy) the school calls CPS and there is a truancy case. I think once a kid hits 14 absences, they have to bring in doctor's notes. Parents have access to an online acct. and I was looking at DS's page yesterday, and they have documented every absence and the reason for it (sick, medical appt., unexcused, etc). There is even a graph showing the percentage of sick days vs. unexcused, etc.

I wonder if this could have to do with that....they are trying to make a case that there are too many unexcused absences? I don't know, just thought I'd throw that out there.

I would not assume malicious intent until you have evidence of it. Give them a call-- we will all be most curious.

We also attended a school in which the field trips were considered required and parents were not allowed to attend (especially the overnights, which freaked me out in a big way since they started those in 4th grade). If the child did not attend the field trip, then they received a zero for that day. DS was so far ahead, who cared?

I always managed to schedule a doctor appointment those days.

I figure that very few things in life are MUST dos. How DS handles different situations can be dicey without me there. So I figure it's my call - not the school's (who treats everyone the same).

Whoah I am really shocked that this can happen. Are these private schools? Quite honestly, my parents, who were seriously not great parents and who were of the era of 'benign neglect' were never comfortable with us doing anything over-night. As we got older they relented, of course, if we really wanted to campfire girls camp weekend, etc. But let me tell you NO ONE would have MADE them send their kids away overnight at any age. They were seriously uncomfortable with that. Actually our very first, first grade field trip my brother and I were called out sick for because my parents were not comfortable with us going. My mom was so pissed when I had admitted to the nun (who did grill me on it) that we weren't really sick that day but rather my parents weren't comfortable sending us on the field trip. Anyway, I am really, really shocked schools would insist on stuff like this. People should challenge this stuff legally. When a kid is under the age of 18 I would highly doubt that any court would allow a school to veritably force parents to send their children off of school grounds or away overnight. Quite frankly, after a terrible bout with bed bugs brought home from a retreat place (and literally thousands of dollars spent in damage and extermination costs) I am not keen on sending my boys to any camps anywhere for that reason for quite awhile even though they would love it. Of course I have the additional problem with life-threatening allergies with one of them - another reason I'd be really unhappy with such a policy. I just do not think it is right that a school could compel kids to go places off school grounds or overnight and punish them if they do not. My kids love to do them (and the older loves to go places overnight) but I find such a compulsion to really be an assault on parental rights.

I pick and choose field trips. They cost money and some are a waste of time. Some are necessary for credit so I send my kids to those, but others are of questionable value-- really 17.00 to go see a play at the high school? A basketball game at the local college for 25.00?

Overnight trips in public school are incompatible with my introverted boy and have never and will never be happening, saving 250.00!

And parent chaperones have to pay that sum too. Who has 500.00 to spend on a field trip? (I can't believe the parents line up for this opportunity, but they do).

Many kids opt out. We get emails that beg parents to send their kids and set a goal of 100% participation. But parents need to make the decision.

If you are sending your child to a school that is voluntary, it's a different story.

While I agree with most everyone said above about the school I do have one question. Why is it a 7 year olds decision if he doesn't wants to go on a field trip?

I would just ask. Politely. "I'm sorry, but we had something else planned for that day." (I assume this is fine bc of the homeschooling arrangement.) "I'm sorry if this is creating an issue for you, though! Is there a logistical reason why it's important for him to attend?"

The staff is being flat-out creepy. I'd make sure they know that.

Why should I pay for something that my son doesn't want to do? Also, why shouldn't he have input? He understands out current arrangement and situation. He is partially homeschooled. He knows that I am available for a full day of homeschool - and he will do just that. He is telling me that he would rather spend the day at home doing homeschool work than on this trip. I don't see the problem.

If no one was home to offer him this option, then he would have to go on the trip.

Because it's about power! You must exert your power regardless of how meaningless! You must take choice and control away from your kid in any way possible! How else will he learn to blindly obey no matter what!?!? (in case it's not obvious, completely joking and being sarcastic here)

Personally, kids need a sense of control and of choice - I give it when I can (obviously within reason) I try not to take away control in a purposeless way because, really, the kid in such a situation will just tune out anyway. That is just my personal parenting philosophy and that's why my 7 year old (now 8) usually got a choice on field trips... it works really well for us. It seems especially important for my gifted kiddo.

Bingo-- and I might be a little more cheeky about this than Ultramarina, but still get the same point across--

Wow-- must be some Kool-Aid that they plan to serve on the trip if it's compulsory. I'm just wondering what happens if my child misses the indoctrination portion of the program-- can you explain?

I seriously think they do not realize that he is planning to stay home that day. I imagine if I didn't sign a permission slip for a trip at my son's school the teachers would be a little frantic wondering what they will do with him if I expect him to be able to be at school that day but not have permission to attend the trip. YKWIM? I am sure once she tells them he will be home that day they will be fine. No school can be this weird... at least not openly! (or can they???)

Our school's permission slip says explicity that those who opt out of the field trip will be placed in the classroom of another teacher for the duration of the trip. I think that this is normal operating procedure for most schools.

Yes, our school always has the kids who aren't on the field trip staying with a teacher and doing ...something. I don't know what, since my kids have never missed a field trip except when they were sick or on some other school thing. But I do know they have a contingency plan for those who aren't allowed to go for whatever reason.

I wouldn't even hazard a guess anymore as to how weird a school can be -- these are places, after all, that suspend kindergarteners for biting PopTarts into gun shapes, or punish kids who get bullied for their My Little Pony lunch boxes. There is no end to the weirdness.

Cool! That is not what ours say at all! I guess they do not necessarily want to highlight that parents have a third option (one being attending the trip, two being staying home instead of going on the trip and three being getting to send your child to school that day but still get to opt of trip). Interesting. But I do think that if someone pushed on the issue, the school would do just that - put the child in anther class for the day or something... I think they just do not necessarily want it to be obvious that there is a choice. That's just how our school is...

ETA: Oh and half the time you can't make head or tail out of the permission slip - many times it will have the wrong dates or wrong times, etc... one had conflicting dates and times throughout the sheet so you havd no real idea exactly when the trip was and for what time!

It is the job of the school to keep the child in campus if the parent opts the child out of the field trip. Field trips are not mandatory. Staying home involves the parent taking time off from other things to watch the child. So, the contingency plan of the school is to put your child who is not on the field trip in another classroom of the same grade or a close enough grade for however long the trip takes. In our school, when the whole grade goes on the trip on the same day, the child not on the trip is sometimes left with the front desk and admins who provide work packets, craft packets etc and then send the child to PE with another grade and such things. Essentially, the child is fully taken care of - maybe a wasted day for the child, but they do "something" at school.

Cost was never involved in your original statement. I just never heard of 7 year olds making parental decisions. I certainly never would of asked my 7 year old for any input.

Well that's you. I don't parent that way. As far as I am concerned, if it involves my son having to go somewhere for several hours he gets a say and his say is, at the very least, considered. For us, it is not just a "parental" decision - he gets a input in what happens to him and, personally, I like how that shapes our relationship AND I think it really provides a scaffolding in his building his own problem-solving and decision-making skills. But, then again, I had a really bright mature 7 year old.

I agree with it. And I am pretty sure my Ds's school does the same ... I just don't think they want it made obvious.

I'd think it's only natural to give your child a chance to express their opinion about field trips (or any other trips for that matter). Especially since we're talking about gifted kids here who in many ways think beyond their years!
We homeschool now so it's not an issue but I would not make either of our sons go on a trip they wouldn't want to go on.

I'd have thought it was obvious, but apparently it needs saying: there's a huge difference between "7 year olds making parental decisions" and "7 year olds having a voice and being heard."

I certainly would never have made a parental decision without at least hearing what my 7yo had to say about it.

My child in many ways is gifted beyond her years.(She has Geometry in 7th grade next year for example). Just because their gifted doesn't mean though they have common sense (more than non gifted) and know what's best for themselves.

But the first two lines of the original statement was he didn't want to go so I didn't sign the slip. It sounded pretty obvious to me who made the decision.

Why would you make a kid go on a trip when they don't want to? We're talking about a field trip and far too many times these have very little to do with actual education so unless I thought that there was a real need for the child to go, I'd not make them.

This is a part time homeschooled child. He's probably used to making a lot of decisions regarding his education.

I'd have been extremely foolhardy to try to do that to my particular 7yo, speaking frankly.

No, she doesn't "make all her own decision" even now, at 14. But she makes more of them than she did at 7, and even then she made more of them than she had at 3.

I figured that there had been discussion about the field trip, which the OP was not sharing the specific details of, and which I'm not really entitled to anyway. Having lived through this age with a PG child, and the seven years past it, as well... I'll say this much: I think it's a wise parent that rewards logical and rational argumentation in such children at seven. That was always our condition for having one's voice heard-- provide me with REASONS, not whining, and be prepared to back your opinion just as I'd ask another adult to. Do that, and your opinion counts for a lot more.

Just because the school thinks a field trip is a good idea doesn't mean that they are more RIGHT about that than the child who thinks that it is not.

This x2. Any adult that shows this kind of inordinate interest in having access to a child unaccompanied by a parent is a huge red flag.

Because,and this story isn't a good example, in life you don't always get what you want.

You might find the research on outcomes of authoritative vs. authoritarian parenting interesting.

http://www.parentingscience.com/authoritative-parenting-style.html

And that's a good thing?

Enh...I don't think it's a red flag, really. I think schools are just bureaucratic and odd. I also think it's possible that it's something like what 22B proposed--they get a discount for X number of kids, etc. Maybe they received money from a donor to take X kids. There are odd things like that operating behind the scenes at schools. I tend to be the kind of parent that teachers disclose things to (or so it seems--not all teachers, btw) so I've had teachers tell me things of this sort. ("I'm supposed to make her do that phonics program every day because we're required to by XYZ mandate, but she doesn't need to, so I fill out the form and let her read." "We need to meet numbers for that, so I just say he's here even though he's across the hall getting enrichment." --These are not totally accurate examples, but this kind of thing.)

This sounds so much like what schools are trying to tell us about our kids who understand more and want more and they get to hear "tough life, you don't always get what you want, so get used to it, learn to sit, wait and listen". Isn't that what most of us fight against on a daily basis on behalf of our children?

I agree. People tend to like to bash schools on here. I think someone said earlier but my guess is they didn't want to leave a teacher behind just for one kid but they didn't want to give that as their reason.

I never heard that sit wait and listen before but maybe that's me. I guess I must be the only one that lives in an area where schools are good. My comment really had nothing to do with schools.

I also don't see it as a red flag at all. It could be any of the reasons mentioned above. I'd also consider that they might want him to attend because the field trip is directly related to seething that is currently being studied in class. Maybe our schools are different than elsewhere, but the vast majority of my kids' field trips are either related to current classroom studies (most field trips), classroom community building (typically only at beginning or end of the school year), or arts appreciation or traveling special exhibit in town. The third things on my list are the only trips is really consider optional - and I would still send my kids because I think they are worthwhile and they (here) are usually free or much lower cost than to the general public.

Have you asked the school yet why it's mandatory?

polarbear

The OP said, DS7 has already been to this place enough, so doesn't feel like going again just now, and besides they were planning to homschool all day that day, so going on a redundant field trip would just be a disruption.

In other words it's just a common sense decision.

I agree with this, and I'll post an article that I think I've posted here before, but is relevant to this discussion: How to Teach a Child to Argue

My ds 11 has always liked to go on field trips.
If he said he didn't want to go I would wonder why and hear him out.
I can't imagine never asking him for input, even at 7 I wanted him to be part of the conversation.

It is the parent's decision, and they can decide after hearing the reasons to go or not. OP's DS7 has already given reasons he needn't go (already been there, wants to school all day at home that day). Nobody else has given any reasons why he should go, so ...

Are you serious? That is crazy. Here it would take a lot more than that (like 6 months non attendance) to get a truancy case taken though if my child were late to school every day the school social worker might get involved.

The only other thing I can think of is that they think you are deliberately preventing your child from attending when he wants to go because you don't want him exposed to things without you being there to control what he sees/does.

I wouldn't ask ds7's opinion on a field trip but I would listen if he expressed an opinion.

You don't always get what you want in life but I'm not sure you need to spend your childhood preparing for this. I'm assuming he gets a little practice anyway as most people insist of some diet and sleep limitations. Besides if life isn't fair you should work to make it fair not shrug your shoulders and hope you are always on the right side of the unfairness.

I know kids who habitually missed 30+ days of school each year, and no truancy case was generated, despite this wording in the law:

"A student shall be considered habitually absent or habitually tardy when either condition continues to exist after all reasonable efforts by any school personnel, truancy officer, or other law enforcement personnel have failed to correct the condition after the fifth unexcused absence or fifth unexcused occurrence of being tardy within any school semester."

Policy and practice don't often match.

No your comment had nothing to do with schools. Rather, your comment was a snide remark on the OP's parenting and it implied that any decent sane parent would never take their 7 year old's feelings on the issue into consideration (or any issue apparently!) Yeah, I noticed. As you can see, many of us do not share this philosophy and we have pretty great kids so... I guess we agree to disagree on the issue and move on as, clearly , the OP is standing by her decision to honor her child's feelings on the matter whether you think it is purely a "parental" decision or not. And, quite honestly, in life, a lot of times you do get what you want - I know I do ! I guess I never learned that lesson of 'you just gotta do what your told whether you like it or not 'cause that is life!' So glad for that!

The weirdness is getting weirder. As of the past 3-4 months I do very well with their weirdness. I'm cordial and have learned to say, "No thank you. Let's just agree to disagree." And then just move on.

The letter is being drafted. It has been and will be communicated again.

Well said, Irena.

Thanks Aquinas! Actually, there is a great podcast on this issue and how bad it is and how it results in gifted underachievement. It's here:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/colorado-gifted/id650064362?mt=2

Well worth the listen - he talks about a few things but he does talk about giving these kids some control in their education and not taking control "away in a purposeless way" form these kids. It's a great podcast!

And we have a winner! Irena you win the prize for guessing what the issue is. (And really, if I had a way to give you a prize, I would.) It is a big power/control trip. DH and I were at an event at school with other little ones in tow. Principal Cuddly Crocodile approached me because she was "very concerned" that DS7 is not going on the field trip. I thanked her for her thorough follow thru and her attention to this. But I simply repeated the reasons that DS has already told her about not wanting to go on the trip. I then asked her, what's all the kerfuffle about? Are they going to the Jim Jones Nature Center? (Blank stare.) She cited several reasons why children "must" go on field trips: wonderful educational opportunities, a child could miss out on thrilling and educational discussions regarding the trip in the days following, a child will miss out on irreplaceable social exchanges that can only occur on a long field trip bus ride. When I explained that he was ok with all of that and so were we, we got to the root of it: "If you refuse to go on the trip, other parents will think it's ok to do the same. We don't want you to set a precedent that will cause other parents to think that they can pick and choose the educational opportunities that the school offers. We are experienced professionals. We know what are great opportunities for children."

Then the principal approached DH (Mr. Terse - he doesn't use any more words than he ever has to use. He is linguistically efficient.) He just stated, "I find you and your staff to be offensive. I will not discuss the matter any further. Thank you." So, once DH and I were done playing good cop/bad cop we mingled with other families at this event (while our toddlers are bouncing around all over the place). Turns out this is business as usual for the principal and office staff regarding field trips.

Eh - I should have known. The control and not wanting to set a precedent is the same excuse we got for not accelerating and not homeschooling.

I think nicoledad is making a legitimate general point about the parental role in decision making, it's just that it's a non-issue in this case, as parent and child are in total agreement about this particular situation.

Here's an example where there'd be a real issue. If my child thought a teacher was assigning pointless busywork, then I'd expect my child to let me know. I would decide if I agreed. If so I would advocate with them to the teacher to be excused from the pointless busywork. If I disagreed, I would expect them to do the work. I would not say they should just unilaterally refuse to do it.

Somewhere, sheesh.

Is this a private school or public? This seems unusual if it's a public, but some private schools do assume they can control their "culture" and "product" to a pretty great extent.

Yay! I win! Where's my prize?

If this school is so bad, why send him their period?

Somewhereonearth, as an aside, I think our husbands would get along. DH, a lawyer, goes from polite and terse to an ungodly firestorm of argument-decimating verbal ripostes in the blink of an eye. People think I'm the bad cop until they meet his game face. He leaves no survivors.

Are you still here?!

LOL, I thought the same thing!

I hate it when the principal doesn't take your word for it and tries to undermine you by going to the male figure in the family. Hello! Gotta tell you though - LOVED your DH's response.

nicoledad, thanks for your input in this discussion. We generally allow DS7 to make all decisions in our house. He rules the roost. We find that things work better that way.

Just kidding. We actually did the school-knows-best-so-do-what-they-say-and-effectively-sit-down-and-shut-up (for a couple of months). What we found was that the "professionals" actually didn't have a clue how to educate this child. This, in and of itself, would have been ok if they had just said, "we don't know what we're dealing with - let's figure out how to meet your son's needs." What ended up happening is that staff said all sorts of things, made a lot of promises - in writing - and then truly ignored all of the promises. They literally left my son sitting and waiting - for months - for accommodations that they had PROMISED him and me. When I did my investigation to try to figure out why my super duper social and relatively compliant son was refusing to go to school, I found that he was an anxious child at school who was being ignored. (And yes, I have had staff repeat to me, "your son needs to learn to not ask questions and to sit down and do what he's told." What he was doing before we began partial homeschooling, was filling out classroom worksheets with variations of "I don't know." The attitude was clearly out of a prior decade - maybe the 1950s. Yet the teachers were mostly born in the 1980s. I digress.)

When I brought in my son's IQ scores and report and illustrated that he was at least 4 SD out to the right of that bell curve, I got the shrug. I was assured that the Very Experienced Professionals would take of things. So, to say that I have a major trust problem with the staff of this school would be a huge understatement.

Not that I need to justify anything to anyone here, but I think it may be useful to those who post and read here. When my son declared that he didn't want to go on this trip, I was surprised. He typically likes a fun day with friends on the bus doing whatever they are doing. He appears to have outgrown that. We had a long discussion about his thoughts about the trip and what he thought would be a suitable replacement for that day. It all sounded good to me. In fact, I was quite proud of how he thought out activities for the day. He was not trying to evade something moderately unpleasant. He was simply thinking practically, actually.

As far as money, it's not an big issue. But the trip is to a place to which we are already members. The school doesn't allow a family to use their membership cards on field trips ("too confusing for the teachers"). But again - why should I waste my money (any amount of it) for something that doesn't appear to have much value for me or my child?

My child has plenty of growth and resilience opportunities as a result of being put in frustrating situations (has anyone read, The Blessing of a Skinned Knee?). An elementary school field trip to me is a bit like a friend's birthday party at that age. Go if you want to go, don't go if you don't want to go.

They're doing partial homeschooling (which I'm sure is a pretty rare opportunity). They get to pick and choose what they want from the school, so there're some advantages that make it worth putting up with some of the weirdness, I guess. OP can clarify.

Oh my gosh, I am dying laughing! The Jim jones Nature Center! (Loved HK's Kool Aid comment ealier too - laughed so much ) Where are the parents like you at my DS's school!?!

22B, yes you win a prize too! I was searching back in the posts because I didn't remember who had made your comment.

PM'd you!

I agree with the rare opportunity comment. I am certainly not up on any laws regarding partial homeschooling but couldn't that be taken away?

A possible explanation for much weirdness by school personnel is that they have school improvement or school wide professional development goals which involve meeting some arbitrary benchmark for attendance, on-time attendance, parent participation, communicating, outreach to parents, school-community partnerships, etc. It's the end if the school year, and they're running out of time to meet their goals, which might be tied to merit pay for the principal or teachers union members, avoiding takeover by the state, etc.

if it's not compulsory and it's not a life changing event I'd definitely take my child's feelings and thoughts into consideration. That includes my 7 year old, my 5 year old and even my 3 year old. In fact, even with life changing events I'd be likely to ask them and consider that into the mix too.

Flip if I had left Aiden at the K level in the gifted school he was at before we pulled him out I'm sure by now my marriage would be over, Aiden and I would both be on medication and he on suicide watch. He was 5 and my only regret about listening to him was that I didn't listen sooner - like an entire year sooner! We could have skipped so much anguish, angst and emotional and psychological turmoil. All just by asking what he wanted. *sigh*

We homeschool/unschool now and my older two boys get to choose their own goals, and set their own work schedules. They suggest/veto project and outing suggestions and they definitely chose their own sports and activity options.

I wasn't kidding about the calls to CPS. I know of 2 families where CPS got involved. One of them involved a single mom who had a first grader and twin infants. She was sometimes a couple minutes late with drop-off because of juggling all the kids by herself, and once it got to about 15 tardies, CPS actually came to the school and there was a meeting.
One day my kids arrived at school literally seconds (maybe 5 seconds?) after the bell rang. The reason they were late was because someone locked the back door earlier than usual, so they had to walk around the building. The kids were sent to the office and marked tardy, and it's in the records.

I've become paranoid and if I can't get my kids out the door (with DD's ADHD and DS's organizational impairments this is often difficult), I start to panic a bit, thinking about mounting tardies. Sometimes they are marked tardy when I know I dropped them off before the bell rang. Parents aren't allowed into the school (unless they go to the office and sign in with ID), so if my kids get distracted or wander, they are marked tardy, and then I could get reported to CPS.

Illinois has a very strict policy on absences too. If I'm not mistaken, it's first 5 or 6 absences and you get a warning letter and once you hit 10 (or is it 9?) ... and that's total for BOTH semesters, the school is supposed to notify the truancy office and you're being watched like a hawk and from then on have to bring doctor's notes and any non-health related absence has to be approved by the school administrator. DS5.10 when he was still enrolled had major absences. He'd go to school for couple days, get sick for a week, then school for couple days, then sick again. Knowing the policy and how much he'd get sick, I had it written in his emergency medical plan (which was mainly to cover his allergy but we included this too) that it was expected he would be sick often and that the school would NOT require us to produce any doctor notes (he tends to catch even more bugs when we visit doctor offices) to not compromise his immunity even further and our doctor signed off on it and I had the school sign off on it before he even started attending. And of course, two or three weeks after the school started (this was last fall), we got the warning letter in the mail, so I marched in, with a copy of our emergency health plan, asked to talk to the principal, and made him aware of the agreement we had that no action would be taken and I have to say that they did follow it from then on. By Thanksgiving when we pulled him out to homeschool, he had about 25 absences I think?
... and totally off topic, but hes not been sick ONCE since we pulled him out in November! He had sniffles for about 2 days but no high fevers, frequent trips to the ER, anything like that. So homeschooling clearly has many more advantages aside to tailored education plans

Our school district (or possibly our state) is also very strict about total # of absences and calling CPS.

FWIW, the principal's reason is sounding a lot like what happened with friends or our family who were part-time homeschooling in elementary - the school really didn't *want* them part-time homeschooling, and eventually pressured them into having to either enroll full-time or withdraw and homeschool full-time. When the school was putting pressure on the family to make their decision, they used reasons such as this - not being available to fully participate socially (from the school's point of view). Perhaps the principal's only concern is floodgates opening with lots of other parents opting their kids out of field trips, but I'm wary that there might be something more behind it in terms of finding excuses for why part-time homeschooling doesn't work. If you're *not* getting that vibe and the school is completely behind your decision and happy with it, then totally ignore this reply!

Best wishes,

polarbear

One of the concerns schools have about part-time homeschooling (and this even applies to private schools) is that they will be held accountable for the results of instruction that is largely out of their control. It is easy to view this as controlling behavior in the sense of infringing on privacy rights, but you also have to think about it from the standpoint of consequences that the school and school personnel take for situations over which they have no influence. Any student who is on the books in the state count as being enrolled at a school affects their attendance, graduation, and state testing figures, which feed into their school and district performance figures, which affect Race to the Top funds, state receivership/supervision status of the district, NCLB accountability numbers, etc. Every public school administrator I know (and a few private school admins, too) has at least one directly-observed horror story about a homeschooled student who was not receiving adequate instruction, or was nominally homeschooled as a cover for some truly neglectful/abusive family situation. Granted, there is a fair amount of selection bias, as the successful homeschooling families are probably less likely to wash back up on the public school shores than the poorly-homeschooling families. But the point is, their anecdotal experience causes them to fear that a student being educated outside of their own (presumably) watchful eyes is not going to learn, and then the school will be punished for it when mandated testing time rolls around.

I have had more than one administrator say to me in surprise, "You homeschool? But you're so normal!" (Little do they know!)

:-)

Sounds like they would be best buddies. Of course, my DH being so terse, wouldn't have too much to say to your husband, or to anyone else.

Charter school. Non profit with founders who are, honestly, rather cultish.

It actually works well for DS. This school is, hands down, the best public school in the area. There are some things that I quite like about the school apart from the ill fitting academics. And having worked in public and private schools for a long time, I find this behavior to be odd, but not so odd. Public schools have a lot of incompetent people working in them. I knew that going in to the game.

I think the specials that are offered at this school are good. The student population at the school is perfect for us - extremely diverse with a very large immigrant population. I like my DS hanging out with a lot of the kids from his school.

Of course this can all change on a dime.

Oh sure, the school has never really liked that we are doing the partial homeschooling. But after speaking with other parents, I am hearing that this field trip issue is universal. It is apparently standard operating procedure for the school to basically harass any family who declares that their child will not be attending a field trip.

They could read the newspaper in a parallel, amicable silence. I think that's my husband's dream friendship. Double points if his favourite columnist were his silent friend, haha!

I can fill in for terse. My verbosity makes up for it, but I do know how to be very very quiet and nice-seeming until I'm crossed.

I regularly give school staffers and administrators a sense of cognitive dissonance sufficient to give them mental whiplash, actually.

Are you good cop? Or bad cop? they wonder...


YES. I am.

Here's a whole PITCHER of Kool-aid.

You have me laughing!

Oh HK, how could have missed you?! You definitely get a prize too!

And you also get a prize for being one of the first people on the site - maybe THE first person - to help me out when I first arrived here. As soon as I see your avatar, I think, "this will be a wise, helpful and peaceful response. I better read it!"

Love to you all here! I honestly could not make it through this journey without you. Thanks so much!

I only would have asked my kids what they wanted to do if I thought the field trip was a dumb waste of time and didnt feel like paying for it, but if they wanted to go to spend time with friends outside the classroom, I would let them go. If I thought the field trip was inappropriate or I was uncomfortable with it, then the only discussion would be me explaining why I thought so, to the level that it made sense to explain it.

I would communicate that I am keeping the child home, just in case that is the reason for their inordinate interest.

If their interest is something else, then I would dig in my heels more. I would have signed the permission slip but stayed home only after a day or two of them asking. After that, its clear that you are hostile to the idea and you will have to fight the good fight now or later. It may as well be now.

Hello, cognitive dissonance. It's like they don't know what a permission slip does.

Right. That's not Kool-aid. It's-- medicinal.

Like magic, almost. No more cognitive dissonance!

Yeah. Personally, I kinda still think it's something like this. They don't want to tell you, but some weird numbers game.

Or, control freak city. I have a theory that charter school brass tend to be like this. Micromanaging, control, control. They were at the charter we had DD at.

We have had some good teachers and administrators in our day, but I think one thing that sometimes happens is that the daily carrot/stick behavior-management aspects of teaching seep into the bones of school personnel and they get very weird with the power games. I see this desire to win and to be alpha. Who cares if the kid doesn't go on the field trip? (I also see MYSELF--the way I get sometimes when it feels like my kids are getting the better of me at every turn, and I start to turn into a petty dictator trying to get the upper hand and prove I'm in charge here. It's not a nice look.)

YES! I always get upset with myself when I recognise I'm getting to that point. Luckily I can stop, breathe and change direction. Not sure if the slow-turning wheels of "corporate culture" that assimilate into some schools would allow for the same recognition and self-adjustment.

It's also one of the reasons why I am more and more wary of things that reward "playing the game" with gold stars/A symbols/insert carrot of choice here