Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Educated = Disciplined IMO

I'm thinking:
The extra discipline of gifted kids (besides oe's and intensity) is that they often need more freedom to do more stuff and sooner, so, what can you do besides spend extra time teaching them extra skills, "hothousing" as it's endearingly called (they seem to use it as an insult .?.). I'd rather spend the same sixty golden minutes of every diamond hour teaching ds new things he can do rather than telling him all the things he can't do. �Train the monkeys, wind 'em up, and let 'em go. �

�I find ds behaves better when we do regular worksheets, preschool lessons a few minutes a day. �Somebody guessed it was because of the undivided attention. �Maybe it's just practice listening. �I like what MCT said about his language arts program for gifted kids, "he has a passion for The Language Arts and it shows. �He makes overexcitability look like a natural thing, which it should be."

I like this first post in this thread:�
http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255841&referrerid=27962

Actually I think it's just from my attention and genuine enthusiasm.

I agree with you, however I'm not a huge fan of worksheets--I love the ideas in this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Small-Beginni...3?ie=UTF8&qid=1292883820&sr=8-13
Basically it is Montessori stuff you can do at home.

The reviews reminded me to include chores. I know in a few years it will probably backfire and he won't want to do any chores, but for now including him in the chores seems to make a better day too. I joked once about "montessori dishwashing lessons.". But really, sometimes if I'm just waShing a few things, if I have extra time I make sure there's no knives in the water and let him play in the soapy dishes, reminding him to look what he's doing and keep the water in the sink. I just like teaching him to do things rather than telling him not to do things. I wonder if that's discipline?

DS does a surprising ammount of chores already. Table setting, sweeping floors, washing produce, even cutting some ingredients. If he spills, he cleans it up (usually needs to be asked). Now if only we could get him to put the playdough away...

-Mich

I don't see the choices as worksheets or telling the child not to do stuff. How old is your oldest? Three?

Some alternatives to worksheets or no:

take nature walks
build giant block structures
follow the child's imaginative lead to pretend, build, etc.
dance
enjoy good quality books together
accomplish real household tasks together (laundry, cooking, etc.)
enjoy sensory play
enjoy motor skills play
enjoy dramatic play
cards
games
dance
sing
get out in the community and meet new people
attend community events like concerts
tinker
craft
observe and interact with animals
look at clouds and stars

In my opinion all of these activities are gifted friendly activities. Plenty a HG and PG kid has enjoyed the preschool years without worksheets. The play may be varied and complex but within the world of play there are immense opportunities for growth and intellectual stimulation.

For what it is worth, the rote memorization and focus on writing was a terrible fit for our gifted kid. It was an insult to his creativity and thirst for learning. It was the worse of school imposed at home.

Thank you for the chance to clear that up. �Actually by worksheets I just meant educational stuff. �The closest we get to worksheets now is the color-by-numbers we get from the gas station some times. �We do have workbooks. �HWT and I just ordered Draw Write Now. �I print cut and paste stuff. �Cut and paste from magazines. �I could go on right here forever. �I love this stuff. �Really most of the schooly stuff we do is on the computer, whiteboard, and a science thing. � �There's also nothing really on your list we don't do. �The boys been to so many dances he got complimented on his dance skills at a recent wedding. �

I made that link because it describes segregating language arts into narration, dictation, copywork, and outlining. �I guess I was just excited to share that because it made a lot of sense. �

The point I was trying to get at Katelyn'smom made better than me in another post shortly after I made this thread. �My kid also just doesn't like to be treated like a baby, lashes out if you don't respect him enough to teach him ways to earn more responsibility. �Like he really just acts better the more stuff i teach him. �I'm trying to wrap it if this is discipline or not? �Is it discipline if instead of focusing on boundaries so much I focus on trying to teach him skills. �
I feel silly now that I've posted this. �It might turn out to be another facet of the nurture/tiger mom stream that flows here lately. �I actually intended to hear �some views on the four year debate between me and the hubby about which is better, disciplining kids by being strict and enforcing firm boundaries (which always change over time-hmphf) or by teaching skills which last and giving responsibilities and expecting that to turn into self discipline over time. �Guess it doesn't matter. �We're doing both because their both of our kids to raise together.

Actually the narration/dictation/copywork outline above has practically no paper time. �It's just another way of saying talk to your. �Listen to your kids. �Read to your kids. � And teach your kids.

Narration is their interpretation of artwork, say, or some other stuff. �Recently I asked what he thought of Norman Rockwell's "the shiner". �He looked for a minute then said, "why is she smiling? �She's hurt her eye. �Getting hurt doesn't make you happy. �And why is she sitting there.". � I think that's narration. �Dictation is the penmanship. �We have always worked on penmanship because I wanted his hands to be able to create what his mind saw. �Outline is when we're watching something and I ask him, "what happened? �I missed it." �And copywork is that I've started having him copy short single sentences into the word processor occasionally. �

And I added that MCT quote because I think maybe my excitement at the clarity of the educational plans and designs I'm finding might be what's making the difference. �Maybe that's the same level of energy that they're looking for by pushing buttons I'm showing when I see clearly the next step I want to teach and he gets it. �

The answer to "the shiner" was provided by dh. �She wasn't smiling because she was happy, she was smiling because she was in trouble and she was nervous. �He pointed out (someone) gets the same smile when (they) fart.

A roll of blue painter's tape is an AMAZING thing at this age.

My DH used to come home to find the entire living room floor covered with hopscotch, four-square, and "floorplans" for a variety of purposes.


Yup. That sums up our experience with most of it, too.

DD liked Reader Rabbit when she was 2 to ~4. She used to play on my computer while I worked in the lab. At home she was more free-range.

Interesting. When I wrote that I never considered education as in curriculum; now you have me pondering this. Interesting enough, when DD was 2 and having her issues and me realizing she was lashing out at us for treating her like a baby was around the same time that I was grasping this whole idea of gifted and really started to freak out. I became fearful of her knowing too much and what that would mean for her when she did start school. So I purposely held back. I certainly did not want to hot house nor did I before understanding LOG and how toddlers fit into it all. Yet, I feared that I could be hot housing my child IF I reached for a workbook. DD had learned a great many things by age 2, actually she could have fit comfortably into kindergarten and still be bored with the curriculum but it was from her asking about the world around her. She was/is a big book kid. We spent most of our time reading to her. Stacks and stacks of books and she couldn't get enough. From her time with books she was able to understand letters, colors, shapes, numbers, etc. Not because we sat down with her but rather in passing. But by age 2 she really was at a pivotal point. For her to really continue on at the speed she had been it would require actual lessons of some sort and I wasn't comfortable doing so. This meant that for her entire year at age 2 she was allowed to just be a child. A gifted child, no doubt and one that is over the top with her imagination and narrative ability. She also observed the world around her and drew connections that were mind boggling. Basically, I still saw her advance but in a more cognitive way, not just rote memorization. Don't get me wrong. Through regular daily activities she was able to make connections with curriculum that would otherwise be taught through workbooks. IE. math. She is an avid baker and loves to get into the kitchen with her grandmother. She helps measure everything and mix up whatever they are working on.

Now at age 4.5 after being in school for 1 1/2 and an academic school at that, I look back at my freak out and want to kick myself. I really don't see that spark that we saw before age 2. I know my DD is a major perfectionist and is also that child who is happy to remain in the pack. Going back to math; DD was able to add and subtract by age 2 but I didn't reinforce it beyond when she showed interest in it. At school, her class is doing addition and DD is capable and soars in it but certainly doesn't show interest in doing anything more than what the class is doing at the time. I'm now at a crossroad with it all. She is in a Spanish Immersion program and her buffer was the Spanish but that isn't the case anymore. How do I ensure she is challenged? How do we help this child who is content to be the wall flower in the class and not really look or ask for something more than what everyone around her is doing? Being a perfectionist means not showing her abilities until she is absolutely sure she has it right. She walked at 14 1/2 months not because she wasn't ready before age 1 but because she refused to let go of our hand until she was sure she could do it without falling. This was the same pattern with potty training and now school. If I had feed some of her desires back at age 2 maybe she would be more sure of her abilities now? Sorry for such a long winded post but I'm still analyzing all of this and trying to wrap my head around it all.

Here is where I'm at right now. I don't necessarily have a problem with her using the school to socialize BUT I do have a problem with her sitting around with no challenge. I fear it sets the stage for her to always just be content and truthfully bored but being a people pleasure she will keep quiet about it for fear of having to actually learn. And isn't the fear of parenting a gifted child that that child will never learn to learn? It is for me, anyway.

Yeah, it's complicated. �I think you're looking at developing her self-recognition of her own multifacetedness. �There's personal enrichment and then there's things you do in common with a group and then other things you do in common with your family. �I like that quote in that other thread, "the best life will ever do is to put two great things before you; as you reach for one you lose the other forever.". Such a beautiful and truthful phrase. �

But maybe there's "what goes around comes around" to provide counterpoint, if you misconstrue the meaning and take it literally. �You're bound to run into a similar opportunity again in some form or another. �The best thing to do according to a book I just read, "Your Child's Strengths", is to notice when an activity or event strengthens, energizes, and excites your child. �Eventually you'll refine your understanding of the details of what energizes, strengthens and excites him. �What was she getting out of reading those stacks of books? �That's the element you're trying to isolate and identify to use in future choices and tasks. �I'm a rookie at trying to do this; I just recently read the book. �Maybe ydd feels energized and strengthened by the feeling of being given time to completely consume the preparation experience. �

Maybe she feels strengthened by having completely used every drop of time and resources so she feels she has completely prepared herself. �If that's the case she will be better prepared by learning to recognize her own needs than by learning to struggle. �You're not looking for a place to teach her to learn or struggle a little, you're looking for a place that gives her something to absorb and time to do it. �That's what engages and excites her. �That's only if I put my finger on it right. �If not, you try. �If that's true that's only one part of it, you'd have to refine and add to it.

"What a feelin'"....Take your passion & make it happen!"

So...where's the curriculum for teaching a four year old self-reflection? �Looks like it's time to start teaching her that. �Everytime you see that passion teach her to see it. �You're refining down to the tiniest fragments of what that passion looks like in her. �You're not looking at all for what she's passionate about. �You're looking to recognize HER passion, and what it looks like in her ... And teaching her to recognize what it looks like in herself, over time. �According to what I read that will help her chose better friends and get more satisfaction out of her life's choices.

Yeah, you're not the only one around here that makes long posts. �At least I see other people doing it too and then I don't feel so bad. �And then I remember people here aren't put off by seeing too many words to read, depending on content.

I've read the WTM book and boards for years... and no it isn't really just a message you should talk and listen to your kids. It is a very specific approach based on a particular view of the way children learn. For our family it was not at all a good fit for a gifted. learner. You mentioned trying to avoid the babying the child - to me the WTM for early elementary was the worst interpretation of asychronous development. It takes creativity and fast learning and tries to force it into a box of slow repetition. In my experience bright kids don't need to recite, regurgitate, review - they've already learned it, intuited two steps down the road and are eager for you to keep up. Also, we found making learning dependent on motor skills was a bad move for an asynchronous kid.

Educated = SELF disciplined IMO. Plugging the kid into an existing framework that someone else decided is the definition of giftedness isn't helping the kid develop internal skills or motivation and at the end of the day these are the ONLY thing that matter.


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