Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Newbie needs help w/ WJIII scores and upcoming IEP

I am very new to this so please excuse me if some of my questions have been asked before...haven't had time to read through the archive.

Background-my son, who is now 4yr 7 m, qualified for our town's special ed preschool at 3 years. He pretty much did not use more than 2 word phrases until after 3 years. At the same time, he began to read (was/still is obssessed w/ the alphabet). His expressive speech quickly progressed to age-appropriate and for this last yr of preschool, he lost his speech services, though I always felt something wasn't right. Fast forward to present day...he has been undergoing evaluations as part of his 'exit' from preschool. The special ed committee didn't think he would qualify for services in K but wanted to see the test results first. Also, he has a late birthday (8/8 w/ K cutoff 10/1) and I was contemplating keeping him in preschool for social reasons (tantrums, low frustration) but knew that his reading was now about 1st grade level (though we have not 'worked' on it). Anyway, his social worker just called me to say that she was going to recommend keeping him classified since there was such a wide discrepancy in his WJIII scores...which made me feel a little better about sending him to K since I felt that there wasn't much he was going to gain academically in preschool.

Here are his WJIII Scores:
Oral language ext-97
Oral Expression-107
Listening Comp-91
Brief Achievement-142
Brief Reading-164
Basic Reading-165
Math/Applied Problems-119
Academic Knowledge-107

There are more scores for subsets (in the 115-162 range) but most significant was a 77 in Understanding Directions (wow...could explain a lot w/ his behaviors!)

So, here are some of my questions-
-Is he considered gifted or do those scores for reading/reading skills just reflect being an early reader?

-Given his history of speech delay, does the big discrepancy betwen his oral scores, even though within the 'average' range, and his achievement score mean that he's possibly twice-exceptional?

-Should I consider having more testing done privately? If so, should I wait?

-What questions should I ask at his upcoming IEP meeting? I'm not even clear about the G/T program in this town, but I'm pretty sure it does not start in elementary school.

Thank you for reading through this and if there is any advice, I so appreciate it!

Maybe you should get an audiology exam, not just the crude screening for hearing done at the pediatrician's. We found out that my then kindergartener was deaf in one ear by asking for an audiology exam, although the pediatrician said his hearing screen with them was normal 3 years in a row.
Speech delay and hearing loss frequently go together. Kids who are deaf in one ear are 10x more likely to fail a grade and have lower verbal/oral scores.

Dottie-No, I don't think my insurance will cover this. Certainly didn't cover his speech therapy when he was younger....

I read that the early reading may be giftedness, esp. if self taught (which he did). At the same time, I've also read that reading abilities, when compared to other kids, may 'even' out in the later elementary years so someone who is 'gifted' now in reading won't necessarily be considered that later. I'm just wondering that if he currently scored a 164-165 in reading (over 130, which is 98-99.9%), then is it really possible to become 'average' later on???

Jack's mom-he had a complete hearing test when he entered the special ed preschool. Passed. Even though everyone thinks he is talking fine now, I still feel as though he has difficulty finding the words sometimes. He did not 'qualify' for speech services this year but now that the team has seen his scores, they are going to consider another full speech & language eval to see if there are still some issues.

I think both are true. But remember that you aren't looking at IQ scores, you are looking at achievement testing scores. And you aren't looking at 'even across the board' types of achievement, you are looking at one particular area.

What I'm saying is that the tests are great if they clearly show what is going on. In this particular situation I don't think the test is able to show what is going on. Would the school administer an IQ test?

Clearly self teaching to read at 3 is gifted-behavior. I would keep my mind open to the possibility that 'gifted' is part of the mix, 2E is certainly a possibility, and keep documenting what I was seeing.

Have you read?
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/gifted_101.htm

At age 6 the WISC IV becomes an option, so start saving up for it and looking around for who you would hire to do it. SB-5 is an option right now if you can find someone to do it for you. I think testing is a great idea if you don't end up paying out of pocket for a WPPSI-III. It's fine if the school wants to do one, but I would rather wait than pay for one - the ceilings are just too low for a kid who self-taught reading at 3.

Love and More love,
Grinity

The other possibility that comes to mind for me is hyperlexia. Have you looked into that at all to see if that might be part of the picture? If it sounds unlikely and you feel that he fits into what you've read of giftedness, it might be worth further testing beyond the WJ to see what else you can ferret out.

Agreed with Dottie and Cricket2 -- so few kids in this age group can read at all, so reading scores tend to be very high and not to maintain that over time.

If you want IQ information, you need an IQ test (at this age, try DAS-II, SB-5, K-ABC-II -- agreed that WPPSI is a waste of time and money).

I'd also recommend, given the language history, that you have the eval include a broad-based evaluation of receptive and expressive language (the two most-commonly used intruments are the CASL and the CELF), including language pragmatics.

Also a very very careful developmental history by someone familiar with the ways in which both language-based LDs and pervasive developmental disorders can manifest in gifted kids -- both issues should be on your differential diagnosis. This is not a situation where you're going to get the answers you need from the school district. Sorry. That's not what districts do.

Thanks for all your opinions! There is so much to learn about in regards to tests, scoring, the education process.... I am not so concerned about whether my child is labeled gifted or not. I just want to make sure that he gets whatever help he needs to achieve what he is capable of.

In re: IQ testing, I should be getting the results of that soon, though I believe it was the WPPSI. Sorry to hear that it's a 'waste of time/money' in your opinions...(another thing to look up..) I guess I will have to see how things go over time and consider the WISC when he is older.

Re: raw scores. How are they more helpful than the standard score or percentiles? Here are his:
Letter-word recognition-34
spelling-15
passage comprehension-16
applied problems-17
word attack-14
picture vocab-18
oral comprehension-6

Also, he may be a quirky kid (older sister finds his interest in butterflies, starfish/sea animals and art 'a little awkward for a boy'-her words) but he definitely is not on the spectrum. Another thing the learning specialist was concerned about was ADHD....we know he is a little young, but she told me that even in a one-to-one setting, he had difficulty w/ maintaining focus (esp w/ oral section) and often needed re-direction. This actually concerns me a lot, but I know that he is still young.

Sorry Starfish about the warnings about the WPPSI...I didn't realize it was already administered. It is certainly possible that the scores will be useful to some extent....please don't kick yourself for not knowing in advance more than your local experts. We are just more used to kids who teach themselves to read at 3 and what that might translate into in terms of unusualness.


Fun Fact - "did you know that IQ scores. Don't measure smartness.....they measure how rare a particular level of smartness is for agemates.

Some kids who teach themselves to read at 3 have a pretty rare level. Other kids who do that have more usual levels and just happened to be early in reading. Others fit the 2e catagory. I'm glad that the WPPSI is already taken because that means that soon you'll have at least half an answer.

Love and more love
Grinity

Dottie, I was hoping you could read into the raw scores, as I know I can't - any info there?

Yes, but was the hearing test an audiology exam? This is a specialized test that can take 45 minutes in a sound-proof room. If your child didn't have this, you should request one. Frequently a "complete hearing test" is not a complete hearing test.