Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Maybe I'm just over reacting...

I had my first session helping out in dd5's grade 1/2 class this morning. I have to admit I have come away a little bit horrified. I can however be a bit unrealistic about some things, so I was hoping to get some perspective (and this is possibly a little off topic).

For the hour that I was there the teachers (they team teach so together two teachers manage two classes of 22+ kids) basically only spoke to the kids by threatening or making smart comments about 'misbehaving' kids who were not even doing the wrong thing, but were day dreaming or similar. Some comments including loudly and sarcastically saying "x might be doing a good job, but I wouldn't know because he's facing the wrong way" (they were doing 'brain gym' where they move around the room - he just happened to have finished a move not facing the teacher - he wasn't talking to anyone or distracting anyone), in another instance one of the teachers threatened the grade ones with having to practice lining up outside all lunch time "in front of all your friends so that they will all know you can't listen in class". No one was told they'd done a good job, and nearly every direction was pre-empted with "if you don't do x, y will occur".

Don't get me wrong, wrangling 40 odd 6-8 year olds is my idea of hell, but I found it really confronting. And I consider myself a strict parent. I don't accept being spoken to rudely or important instructions being ignored. I use consequences and stick to them and I am regularly told how well behaved dd is - so it's not that I think they should be allowed to run amuck. I just find their method really unreasonable, and frankly, disrespectful. Dd loves school, so she's obviously not fussed by it - but she is a VERY compliant child outside of home and I worry about her not having the opportunity to speak up in such an environment.

Now, I have a REAL personal intolerance of injustice and shaming people and I am not always realistic in terms of how I expect people to behave when interacting with one another, so perhaps this is normal?

Any thoughts?

It doesn't seem normal to me, especially given the year level you are talking about. (I used to teach that year level) I would be concerned about that too.

Sorry, that doesn't help much, does it?

That sound terrible. I would find out if all of the teachers are like this. The students should be looking to the teacher as an example of how to behave. I would consider addressing this with the principal and make sure it's done without the teacher knowing where it came from. Do you know what your principal is like?

Sometimes a bad teacher can help kids appreciate the good ones more.

Best of luck.

I would be concerned. Perhaps to sit in one the older grades and see if it's a school culture thing. Maybe sit in one some classrooms in other schools to see if it's standard in your state?

I can't bear to see anyone being treated with such disrespect. even kiddos. but it gets the job done - lots of kids are very status conscious at school.

Grimity

At least you will know when your child says get me that toy or I'll do something bad comes from.

The teachers are setting an absolutely horrible example. You are not over reacting. It also sounds like they are punishing the entire class if one child misbehaves. Also not a good example.

I am ok with a little bit of bad behavior by teachers. The children will eventually have to enter the real world where they will occasionally (or often) have to deal with adults behaving badly. But there is a point of getting carried away, which from your description sounds like it.

Thanks all for your responses. I asked dd about it when I picked her up from school. As a rule I try not to say negative things about teachers in front of dd, but I told her that I thought some of the things they said had been unkind and asked if they spoke like that often. She said that one in particular often did.

I would be surprised if it was school wide. I've had a bit to do with the principal while we got dd's grade skip sorted and I don't think she'd accept that kind of teaching. She is quite new to the school though and may not know it is happening. I have another session next week, so I'll check it out again then. The other teacher is quite young and generally shy, so I was surprised at some of her comments today. The one dd says does it often is older. I'm wondering if the younger one is modeling this woman's behavior - either because she feels pressured to and doesn't know how to deal with it (which I suspect is the case after watching their interactions) or doesn't know any better (less likely, but possible).

I'd rather have witnessed it a couple of times if I can - I'm conscious we can all have a bad day, though I suspect that isn't the case here. Was hoping after all the advocacy to get dd to skip kindergarten I could hide in the shadows for a little while before I cause a fuss again! I'm incapable of leaving such things be though, once I'm aware of them (much as I hate having to raise issues) so I will raise it with the principal if it does appear to be part of her teaching strategy. Fortunately the younger teacher is dd's 'official' teacher and dd loves her.

Apologies for any typos - replying on my phone.

Giftedodd - I can certianly understand your feeling that you 'must' do something.

I would recommend that before you 'do' that you order this book and read through it - I think you will accomplish more if you have a positive to offer than if you just share your concern. If you've ever had a co-worker with counterproductive habits, then you know it can be a bit of an uphill battle to get him or her to change - even when it's clearly in everyone's best interests.

I agree it's likely that the younger shyer teacher is observing the older one and trying to learn what she can. The thing about shaming and blaming is that it will produce the desired outcome - but at what a cost. I don't think the sarcasm works on kids very well, but it sure does make the teachers feel better in the short run.

I think JamieH has a good point that we don't want to entirely bubble wrap the kids, but this does sound like an overall negative classroom culture and a different situation.


I think that you could use this book in 2 ways:
1) Read it, try it, recommend it to the Principle as a possible Teacher Education Program.
2) Use the techniques directly on the teachers yourself. You can have a huge effect (positive) on your children's teachers.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I understand not wanting to confront the school. Changing an adults behavior is often more difficult than changing a childs. It might even backfire and cause even worse behavior by the teacher in question.

In cases where you cannot change the behavior or remove the child, then I recommend explaining it to the child. I started doing this when my daughter was 2. By the time she was 4, she was able to recognize certain bad behaviors in both adults and children. By understanding this, she is better able to realize it is not personal or because of something she has done.

Wow, just wow! I completely agree about not sitting back and voicing your concerns. The positive is your interaction with the principal and sounds like he/she wouldn't approve of such behavior. I would definitely have a talk with the principal and make it very clear that you want to remain anonymous for now given that there is a HIGH chance that teacher would hold a grudge.

Well yes, working with little kids all day can be frustrating. I work with 4 and 5 yo's all day long...and I go in and out of rooms working with teachers and helping them with classroom management as well. Some are wonderful, calm and patient...and some are frustrated and not sure what to do and get in the habit of becoming more like a drill sargent. Sometimes I have gone into rooms and counted the negative statements vs. positive statements and talked to teachers about it (in a nice way obviously). You get a much better response from children by praising the good things you see. Classrooms and children fall apart in the rooms with the teachers that are constantly on kids all the time. And I am very consistent and structured as well...but you can't ridicule or shame children to get them to behave. That is never appropriate.

You could talk to the principal about some of the things that you have heard and ask if that is a common thing or not and that you were concerned about the things you heard. Principals aren't in rooms all the time..so they may not see those things at all. I would imagine it doesn't show as much during an observation. Or you could help out in the room and model appropriate ways to do things and catch them being good. It is amazing how when you say something like "I love the way that X is sitting up straight and ready to learn" how quickly others will do that....and how good it makes them feel. Much better way then saying "stop doing that" "sit still" etc etc. It takes practice for some to focus on the positive, but it is a much better way.