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I cannot believe how stubborn some administrators can be. I understand that they mean well, but they are stuck in a box. We are trying to have DS8 attend 6th grade middle school for Math. He has completed 4th and 5th using EPGY, but has asked to be in a classroom with students as opposed to a computer screen. ES principal seemed to be on board, and so is the HS about future placement. However when meeting with the MS principal (6th to 8th grade) he is against it. And he informed us both the ES principal and the HS VP is also against it. Funny they never voiced that to us. MS principal means well, but is not up to date. In his words the MS is not a good place for 8 year olds, social damage will be done by having DS8 attend a 6th grade class. Their was no issue about ability (Unless he kept that to himself), it was all about social. The kids are just much bigger, and a number of them will not be nice to DS8, and he will be picked on, and walking to a class can be (not dangerous) but he will attract negative attention. He even went as far as to take us to a 6th, 7th and 8th grade math class to show us how big the kids in a MS are. One funny side note, in the 8th grade Algebra class where two of my Boy Scouts who both know and play with DS8 at campouts, when DS8 comes along, they both said Hi when I came in. The principal asked us what our purpose was, and what we hoped to accomplish, he wanted to make sure that we understood how detrimental this choice would be. Both DW and I explained how we have not pushed math, and how last year we did very little during the school year and almost no math over the summer. He did suggested self guided learning, but DW explained we did not want our son just to be given work sheets and have him left alone at a desk. We tried this last year in ES, and DS only worked on Math about 20% of the time he normally would work on Math. The final outcome is maybe a trial for 1 week, if all teachers agree, and the head of Elementary instruction for the district agrees. Does not look good, that was the person who stopped the grade skip back in K. We left the school after K and then returned last year for 2nd, but because of a new ES principal we where able to get a grade skip to 3rd. I just don�t understand the rigid belief of all must be at the same age. Unbelievable. Will have to see if she says its ok, if not next step school supervisor, and if needed, up to board of education. On a good note DS was elected to school treasurer this year. He gave an interactive speech with a riddle and some humor. Lat year he ran for post master and did not get it, but tried again this year.

Edwin,
Hang in there. You need to educate this guy that he is back in the stone age when it comes to acceleration.

I would write a letter to all of the people involved (isn't it easy to pass the buck when there are a bunch of people) and include some of the studies that show no social harm to kids who are accelerated. My DS8 is in 5th grade math and the kids are lovely to him (Heck, I'll write an affidavit for you if you want!), the teacher reports that if they start math and he isn't there yet from his main 3rd grade class, the kids all say things like, "we need to wait because A________ isn't here yet and we don't want him to miss anything." We have seen some of the kids out of school and they wave and save nice things to my DS. If there are behavioral issues at the school, I would point out to the Principal (maybe not now) that reflects on his inability to build an inclusive community at his MS!!!

Anyway, keep pushing and hang in there! You can do it! Keep pushing up that chain of command if you need to.
Cat

Thanks Cat, I am taking deep breaths. We will know more by Tuesday. Thats when he said he would get back with us. (Monday is a holiday in our District) I am not the patient type. I have almost sent off all the data I have to make my case (How much should you send?), and e-mailed the two school board of directors I know, and called one or two of the other MS principals to see if they would be more acomadating. But, I will wait until Tuesday.

I would work into it that your goal is for him to learn (or continue to learn) to work within the classroom instruction setting with his math, rather than being isolated with online instruction or worksheets off by himself. That's what we're struggling with here, with DS8 who is in 5th grade math and now working with a HS teacher on ALEKS. Our school, while fabulous in most ways, still has that quirk about sending him to middle school with the big kids. We're working on it.

Funny, that was one of the issues that kept coming up with DS8's move up to 5th grade math - everyone kept saying "but what about when he is in 4th grade, you want him to go to the Jr. High?" And I luckily had the out where I said "lets worry about that in the future, for now, it is the same building and we all agree 5th grade is a good spot from his skills right now." I actually wouldn't mind a year where DS does Aleks on his own with some instruction on the side, I think he would get much further along then he will in some "general 6th or 7th grade pre-algebra lets review how to multiply fractions and decimals a zillion times" class.

I think it was good that the 2 year jump looked "just right" because if it had been 3 years, that would have made things much more complicated since he would have to go to the Jr. High, which would mean dealing with multiple supervisors and principals. At the end of 5th grade, they take a placement test for which math they go into in Jr. High, and I think they will just have to put him where he tests into, hard for them to argue against their own test. I will see, because if he scores well, they have to put him into 7th grade math, which is another grade skip, and I would guess that will create even more concern (a 4th grader in 7th grade math -eeekk). Really, I just think the adults involved have no understanding of how kids function in this sort of situation - the big kids aren't threatened by a little kid with a big brain, it isn't cool to pick on a little kid, and they end up playing big brother/sister to them. Maybe there are some stories of teasing, bullying, but I think they are far outweighed by success stories.

Edwin, yes, just wait until Tuesday. The more measured you can be in your response, the less they will think you are one of "those parents" and it will help in the long run.

Thanks Nautigal, and yes Catalana, I wlll wait until Tuesday, and my response wil be measured. I wish they would use a placement test for acctual placement in DS school. They did have him test on 4th and 5th grade year end tests, and he did fine 90%. Some gaps, but quickly fixed already. I am hopeful that we get the one week trial (I think needs to be two). The attitude seems to be almost sanctomoneus (I cant spell). You as parents will see how bad this choice is. The final words given us was. Really think about this, what your goal is, why you are doing this, and the damage that can be caused by such a move.

Edwin, you should be prepared to explain to them how you'll prep your kid to minimize the proposed "damage." That may reassure them.

We did explain a trial grade acceleration carefully to our kid, just in case it really wasn't a good idea. (But it was.) Learning with peers really matters for some kids, and a younger kid can be accepted graciously by older ones. (Sometimes it has a "mascot" quality, which isn't terrible.)

Let us know how it goes...

DeeDee

To their credit, I could name a ton of parents in our district who would happily push their child when the child wasn't ready and the rest be d**ned, just to be able to say their kid was ahead by X amount. Coming to terms with that concern in my own district helped a lot, because it helped me understand that they had my DS's interests at heart. What I had to help them get was that he was miserable in the current situation. I pretty much had to take full responsibilty for the accel. and we called it experimental and agreed that if it didn't go well DS would drop back to 4th (so only up 1 year instead of 2) if things didn't go well - and this was after everyone agreed he was ready for 5th grade math without any issues. Surprise, surprise, he got 100% on his first math test, and as I said, the older kids are great with him, so now there are not any concerns any longer.

But, it took a long time to get them to see that I wasn't just pushy and that this really was in DS's best interests. I think they almost believe it now... almost.

I think a big piece of it is they want you to accept responsibility for the decision - that was clearly the case at our school.

Cat

In prepping DS8, he was in a math club I ran last year at the ES. He was 7 and competed with the 5th graders (that are now 6th graders at MS). He did very well, and they already know and seem to accept him. Also thier are a number of 8th graders at the MS that are in the Boy Scout troop that I am Commettee Chair and Assisatant Scout Master. They know DS from some camp outs and meetings. The MS principal now knows this, but he did point out MS is not the same as a select small group. He explained they do not have anything but regular 6th grade math with no class for honors, or quick learners. They offer nothing until 8th grade. I also understand he means well, our oldest DS18 was in this school and I was active with the school during his time there. Also the MS prinicpal's son was in a cub pack I started 10 years ago, for about 1 year. He is just a very ridged, but very good man. His policy on fighting was a problem for us with our oldest. The principal states that if you are hit, you must run away. If you strike back you can be expelled. I have always had a problem with that. We where able to help our oldest, without having him strike back, we did that by having him take Boxing, it gave him a lot of confidance, which helped the problem go away.

Ahh, true, but one math class is not middle school in its entirety; it's actually just one small group.


What about the kid that hit first?

I might be outside the norm here, but I encourage my kids to hit back IF someone else hits them first. In particular, I find that this approach is quite effective against bullies.

Val