Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Gifted/Aspergers Huge Variation in IQ Scores

Hello! My 12 year old son has had two IQ tests in the past couple years administered by his school and privately (results were almost identical). Both tests also showed huge variations in the individual indexes.

(WISC-IV)

VCI = 146
PRI = 104
WMI = 110
PSI = 83

GAI = 130
FSI = 118

(WJIII ACH)

Reading Comprehension = 136
Broad Mathematics = 129

The second evaluator suspected (in part because of the unusual discrepancies on the test) and ultimately diagnosed my son with Aspergers. Clearly my son is very smart but he struggles at times and isn't at all motivated.

I guess what I'm wondering is if these scores truly indicate that my son is gifted or if some of the indexes are too low to even consider this? Any thoughts would be appreciated!

What do the test scores have to do with Aspergers? Did the evaluator explain? My understanding is that they shouldn't have anything to do with the diagnosis. There's nothing about that in the DSM - at least not in the old one (anyone know when the DSM V goes into effect?). Could it be that something about the variation provides indication of one of the symptoms?? I still find that very hard to believe but I'm curious about whether there's a reasonable connection/explanation.

In my very non-expert view, if he doesn't have significant social impairment (and even if he did), I'd be on the lookout for some sort of LD, though I'm not sure what, if any, those scores would indicate. Was there a great deal of variation in the subtest scores?

Was the tester a psych?

The GAI at 130 indicates giftedness. I just don't know enough to say more about the disparity. I hope someone who does pipes in here (Thinking some more, I had thought that the GAI could not be calculated when there was that much of a difference between VCI and PRI, but maybe I have that mixed up.)

The test scores didn't lead to the Aspergers diagnosis, they were simply one of many red flags. I think they mainly showed more proof of a problem with fine motor and graphomotor skills consistent with Aspergers. (he's had sensory / motor skills probelm since he was little)

He has HUGE social issues and classic autistic spectrum issues like stimming, toe walking, sensory, etc. She ruled out NVLD & ADHD. As much as I wish he didn't have Aspergers there's absolutley no doubt. I've known since he was two that something was majorly "off" but it was usually dismissed as him being quirky, smart, or the sensory issues. The doctor is a Psychologist and this was a 7 hour Neuropsychological Evaluation (long day!).

I don't see how slow processing speed and/or motor issues are related at all to Aspergers, even as a red flag. Fine motor issues are part of Sensory Processing Disorder, and some sensory-type issues are indicated in some of the criteria (perhaps under (B)?), but I have a really hard time with the use of symptoms like fine motor and processing speed, that are not uncommon outside of the diagnosis, being pointed to (even as a mere red flag) to support the diagnosis, especially since I do not see fine motor/graphomotor issues present in the diagnostic criteria *anywhere* ("motor mannerisms" are not motor issues of the type reflected in test scores). I admit, I have long had a beef with the wording of the DSM for the "spectrum" related conditions - I think it's poorly drafted, which can lead to misdiagnosis. In short, I guess I still think the test scores are unrelated, in any way, to Aspergers. I'd look at the motor issue as a subset of sensory processing issues, while some other subset of sensory issues may be related to the Aspergers. I guess it's a red flag for sensory issues?

Looks like I had too much coffee again this morning and gotten way off track... but based on the limited info here, I'd be tempted to get a second opinion/second analysis of these test results, especially the variation between VCI and PRI, and whether they and the subtest scores indicate any LD, especially since you say he struggles and is not motivated - that part is, I believe, a red flag, not for Aspergers but for LDs more generally. I think I've seen posts with similar scores pop up here before (with VCI substantially higher than PRI), so I'm hoping someone with knowledge will pipe in. I'm not sure what search terms I'd use to find those old posts...

Hi Pandora!

You may find this link interesting. We have been researching how a spread in scores on the WISC-IV may indicate ADHD for our son, and so I stumbled across this link a week ago. I'm not sure how terribly helpful it is?

Thank you ebeth for the link - very helpful!

snowgirl: I think I've failed to articulate the situation clearly. My son was referred to the Neuropsychologist to be tested for suspected Aspergers and/or LD. The IQ score variations was simply more confirmation that he was likely still having Sensory Dysfunction issues including fine and gross motor skill impairments. There are many neurotypical children with sensory issues just as there is also a significant sensory component within Asperger's Syndrome.

I realize that some people believe Aspergers is an overused label much like ADHD without much to back it up. This isn't the case with my son. His challenges are significant - his characteristics are classic. He's been seen by experts in the field including psychologists, behavioral experts, occupational therapists and physical therapists (for help with the damage caused by 12 years of walking on his tip toes - classic ASD trait) As much as I wish it was otherwise - there's no doubt that the diagnosis is correct. If you put your 3 children in a room with my son I assure you the differences would be great.

http://www.autism-help.org/comorbid-sensory-integration-dysfunction.htm

Pandora, sorry I got off track. Back to the scores, if your main question is whether they indicate giftedness, yes they look gifted to me the non-expert. That's quite a high VCI. 130 (for FSIQ or GAI, depending) counts as gifted under many/most situations, though some school programs may have lower cutoffs so as not to miss people (and other private programs dealing with HG and PG individuals exclusively may have higher cutoffs.) My main concern would be what happened with the PRI - it seems inconsistent with the VCI - that's where I'd be worried about some random LD getting in the way of the scores. Any interesting variations in the subtests that comprise PRI? I also think the big difference between the PRI and the achievement scores may indicate something - I wish I knew what.

It's great that the achievement scores are in a gifted range, though they aren't entirely consistent with the much higher VCI either (but maybe that's due to the bottleneck effects of the lower PS and WM? thinking out loud).

Hmmm, this is interesting - maybe this is what the tester was getting at about the scores - apparentlyh it's common for GAI > FSIQ for persons with conditions like Aspergers (though that's quite a list of conditions) http://www.pearsonpsychcorp.com.au/userfiles/509624557WAIS4_TIM_revised.pdf

Have vision issues already been ruled out as well, since they are common amongst kids with other sensory-motor issues? (just more thinking out loud...) Do you need scores to get into a particular program or are you just trying to figure out giftedness to make sure his educational needs are being met more generally?

Pandora, I think you're in the right place here for evaluation of those spiky test scores. (My gifted kid with AS is also uneven that way.)

I can also recommend this other site for information and support: they have a nice forum with experienced parents, some of them with gifted/AS kids.

http://www.aspergersyndrome.org

Best,
DeeDee

You may want to see these posts, that involve VCI much higher than PRI:

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....lp_with_interpretating_WI.html#Post76980

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....fference_between_VCI_and_.html#Post75786

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/68706/1.html

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....smatch_between_IQ_and_ach.html#Post54165

also you might find this one interesting http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/38776/1.html

Thanks you so much for your responses! The subtest scores for PRI were:

12 (block design)
11 (picture concepts)
9 (matrix reasoning)

To further confuse me, he scored 112 overall on his first PRI test 2 years earlier and his matrix score was 15. He had some variations between the two IQ tests administered but they both equaled out to the exact same GIA and FSIQ. He's had his eyes checked and he doesn't have any problems. He's actually done pretty well in the spatial tests given by his OT (all the video gaming must count for something!).

It's really a mystery to me. The school psychologists did choose to use his VCI as the best measure of his intellectual ability. I guess this is part of my concern as to whether he truly is gifted and should take part in all of the programs available. He's been in gifted programs for 6 years but lately I wonder if his areas of weakness negate his strengths? He does well academically with grades and state testing despite his lack of motivation but it's a battle to get him to comply. I wish I knew if he was just avoiding work he doesn't like or if these areas of weakness are affecting him more than we realize?

Thank you everyone for taking the time to help and the links as well. They've all been very helpful to me!