Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion To the homeschoolers about unschooling

I'm going to try that one on my kid! He needs to understand that it's ok to not be good at something. Come to think of it, so do I.

"To be bad," conjugated as needed.

My partner was raised in an environment where the other 4-letter s-word is commonly used, and it baffles me that she can't just substitute "stuff."

There's another concern, though, which is that these kids are going to grow up to be voters. Education isn't just for self-fulfillment. It's neccessary for creating a responsible citizenry.

I may be overly cynical, but I've never seen anything to indicate that school actually fulfills that goal.

I was thinking the same thing, no5no5. I think we have to distinguish between what is a problem specific to unschooling and what is a problem that is culture-wide. Remember that the percentage of kids who are homeschooled is only something like 2% of kids; only a small percentage of *that* number would claim to be unschoolers, and only a small percentage of *THAT* number are using unschooling as a way to neglect their kids. Tiny number!

Punish abuse and neglect wherever it is found, of course, but I get tired of the focus on the homeschooling few for massive, culture-wide issues. There's abuse, neglect and bad citizenship going on for school kids, too, at about the same rate as in the homeschooling community.

Well no, of course the school isn't going to provide ambition and motivation magically wherever the family has failed to. �The same family that would call video-games and free babysitting "the unschooling lifestyle" wouldn't really care about grades or achievement in school other than maybe to pass. �Just agreeing with what PTP said better than me in that the PR hype of unschooling is "quit the rat race, forget all the standards, throw away all expectations and just enjoy life while it's happening in the here and now, and the proof it works is the wildly amazing success stories," as if those are a representative sample. �As if unschooling is most likely going to produce the most successful college students.
Another way to see it maybe that the unschooling lifestyle is very attractive to the type of families who are raising the type of kids who will make the best college students later in life. �But that's a different thing than saying the process of unschooling produces better college students. �
I can see it being attractive to several types of families for a variety of reasons. �I think a lot of families who are motivated and are trying to raise little successful adults often end up trying a variety of things before it's all said and done. �I don't know what I'm going to do with my kid yet. �Like I said I like the supportive exploration of a child's interest, I love the interactive parental involvement with the child's pursuit of his interest, I love how the unschooling seems to be completely about maintaining a supportive family and constructive home-life so the kid is free and secure to explore their interests. �I'm not so thrilled with the part of unschooling that tells the kids it's ok if you don't want to try it or you don't think you'll like it, you don't even have to try; and if you're not good at something you don't want to work on it, that's fine too. �That's just my gut reaction to the philosophies of unschooling. The practical choice to unschool is a different matter. � Anyway the practical choice to unschool could be to relieve a child's suffering due to developmental differences. �It could be just because the family wants to try it and it's their right to raise their kids the way they want to. �And it's not irreversible. �You can always at any time choose to get your free public education up until the age of 18 (I think...)

If I win the lottery I will immediately choose unschooling. �My kids will explore Egypt and the Mediterranean in person. �I'll read them the history books on the flight over there then we'll look for the landmarks (I can still dream, right?). �I'm still saving nickles and dimes to show the most of the world live and in person anyway.

Maybe what it gets down to is "unschooling" is really quite a vague term and people use it to cover all sorts of different approaches. While I'm not in any way invested in the label, unschooling is probably what most people would consider the most accurate way to describe our child's educational path prior to college. I will say that I strongly believe elements of his unschoolingish education gave him a much stronger preparation for college than I believe he would have gotten with a more traditional school education or with a school at home type homeschooling approach. By directing his own education he learned a great deal about managing his own time productively and developed incredible confidence in his ability to tackle subjects independently. He takes full responsibility for his own education and is not expecting someone else to tell him what to do and how to learn. I'm sure there are people who develop these same skills in other ways, but knowing him, I doubt he would have as quickly without the sort of freedom and responsibility he had with a flexible child led education.

no5no5 and Kriston, I disagree in part. I think that at least radical unschooling is guaranteed to produce lower-caliber voters than even a mediocre school education. I doubt that most radically unschooled kids, at least, would naturally teach themselves civics and other things that should be in the complete mental kit of every citizen, and which are at least less-inadequately taught in most school systems.

The unschooling mythos even contains stories about children growing into their teens and twenties without being able to read, and that's considered to be fine by some. And maybe it is, in some ways-- but not in obvious others, including trapping and treating learning disabilities, as well as preparing people for adult life, including voting.

I am thinking of an old episode of Mad Men in which a little girl, watching election returns on the TV, asks her dad what the electoral college is, and he responds, "I don't think that's a conversation that's appropriate for children." You wouldn't hear that response in an unschooling family. My DD comes with me when I vote and it always triggers discussions about government and politics.

I'd also note that, due to a learning disability, my DH did not read his first book until adulthood, years after he'd dropped out of public high school.

If a child can get away without knowing civics, then the parents aren't doing a very good job of unschooling IMHO. It's one of the easiest things to teach in daily life because it actually affects daily life all the time. Roads, trash pickup, water, electricity, speed limits, police and fire service, etc. are all around all the time. no5no5's "Mad Men" example is completely true-to-life!

I went to a swanky private liberal arts college with kids who had "good" (and traditional) high school educations. One of my 21yo old peers was talking about voting, but had no idea which political party George H.W. Bush was a member of, though he had been the president for nearly 4 years! So there's a lot of room for improvement in traditional civics channels!

I definitely disagree that radical unschooling is "guaranteed" to produce lousy voters. That's a sweeping and unfair generalization. Many radical unschoolers do a fabulous job.

Certainly I don't go for the notion that it's okay to graduate high school being unable to read or do basic math. But I don't accept that a kid in that situation has gotten a real education either. Nor would 99% or the unschoolers I know. And there are plenty of traditionally schooled kids who can't read. The problem is with the specific execution, not necessarily with the method.