Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion To the homeschoolers about unschooling

Exactly! Strewing and other such techniques are exactly what I had in mind when I talked about slipping bits of learning in.

It's frankly too easy to inject a bit of every subject into everyday life to have a kid get none of one subject for years at a time.

But I was working from the idea of the child who, for years at a time, is getting none of one subject at all--really none! No books around, no conversations about it, no experiments, etc.

In that unlikely case, I think it's probably a sign that a parent isn't unschooling effectively. That's when I would worry about the child not being exposed to stuff s/he might enjoy.

Frankly, I've never seen that IRL. All the unschoolers I know work their tails off to provide that exposure. But I would worry without it.

Let's imagine though that he wasn't gifted. And, that he was entering high school age with elementary school level reading and math skills. That would be an entirely different story.

I certainly accept gifted kids can go from no interest in a subject to a high level of mastery. Our child had no interest in science but within weeks went to AP level study. He was able to this because he already had high level math, reading, thinking, and study skills. It still took hard work.

It is really easy for me to imagine it because I've seen it several times over. If the choice is play video games at home or go to school, the kid who is going to school is certainly learning more about "the pathways of the world and all its diversity".

But he is gifted. As are many other kids.

As I understood your previous post (and please correct me if I'm wrong), you're basically arguing that it is "urban legend" for a kid to make leaps of that nature, that you don't believe it *has* ever happened because you don't believe it *could* happen.

And while I completely agree with you that it is NOT a good idea to bank on that sort of leap to salvage a crummy education, especially if a kid a) is not a gifted learner, b) doesn't have a solid math foundation, and c) isn't a really driven sort of kid, I don't think it is impossible for a kid of a certain sort to make that leap.

I think what is less likely, actually, is that a kid who never showed a bit of interest in a subject over many years would suddenly become driven to master it. Interests usually develop over time, even in kids like mine who tend to form "serial obsessions." But even in my kids, their interests are pretty predictable. They don't spring from nothing into fully-formed career paths.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'd take issue with the ridiculous question "What if he decides he wants to be an astronaut and he has missed all those years of science learning?" But I think the answer GreenGully offered is not impossible under certain, specific circumstances.

As a side note: I think it is important to distinguish between people who take unschooling seriously and people who use unschooling as an excuse to neglect their kids' education. Your last response to GreenGully seems to me to be talking about the latter, while she is talking about the former.

Have you seen unschoolers who play video games all day, every day for months or years? I can't imagine anyone being happy doing that (though I enjoyed a week-long video game marathon well enough back in the day). I know that DD is still very young, but when she uses the computer she does a wide variety of things besides playing games, including watching documentaries, drawing pictures, reading stories, and otherwise learning about a wide variety of topics. I guess my reaction to learning that a child spent all of his or her time playing video games would be that perhaps other choices have not been provided, or perhaps the child has some sort of mental or physical issue preventing him or her from engaging in healthier behavior. Perhaps I am wrong; I know that television and video games can be very addictive, which is one of the reasons we choose not to have them in our house.

Yes. The poster was commenting that the six hours in school have to offer less of a world view. I can easily think of plenty of kids who are totally screen plugged, some of them exclusively on video games for that amount of time daily. It sucks. To be clear I'm not saying this is what ALL unschooling is, but it is what I have seen locally and read the same on many unschooling lists as well. It sucks.

Kriston,
I'm not saying kids never make leaps and bounds. Rather, that higher level studies - high school and beyond - typically require some effort and concentrated study. For students who are smart and have good solid skills (reading, math, critical thinking, etc.) it is within grasp to make substantial progress in less time than would be required in traditional schooling. (clearly I don't question that as our child entered college quite young).

I don't however accept the contention that like walking and talking students will naturally learn calculus. It is a very different process requiring very different skills. Some of the skills most required for academic success are really only acquired through some practice. I'm thinking of skills such as working through frustration, not letting the perfect get in the way of good, etc. Having homeschooled a child all the way through I see that while yes, some skills from baking or archery or whatever the kid likes may apply to academics, there are some separate skills required for more upper level work that really are difficult to develop in another context.

What I've seen very often in the unschooling community is this complicated and somewhat contradictory relationship with academic acheivement. It is on the one hand rejected as "schooled" thinking and rejected as being irrelevant to a happy life. At the same time, the stories of the unschooled kid who had a great academic accomplishment (entered college early, went to Harvard, won the big science fair) are repeated as a validation of the entire movement. I've heard these sorts of references about my child as though his particular accomplishments are a validation of someone else's child led learning rather than probably revealing a couple of things. 1. he's freaky smart. 2. his kind of smarts works very well with academics.

Yes, that certainly could be the case. I think some people are more neurologically at risk for screen addiction. Some of the kids I've seen who fit this description are kids who are on the spectrum or at least spectrumish. What is tricky is that sometimes their parents have similar traits so they may not be the best ones to encourage social interaction or overcoming anxiety.

I haven't been able to read all 5 pages of posts, but thought I'd add my two cents since I have a much different perspective about unschooling after this summer.

We started HSing last January. Like many, I'd had a generally unfavorable opinion of "unschooling" after meeting several HS families whose children clearly aren't meeting basic standards. (I think this is also why, 12 months ago, I also had an unfavorable opinion of HSing itself!) I generally follow the classical approach, but we only spend about 50% of our schooltime on standards-type lessons. The rest ebbs and flows around DS's interests, either with self-exploration or through co-ops.

My unschooling epiphany came this summer when I decided that we weren't going to do any formal schoolwork, and I'd let DS pick his own path. I HATE having electronics on during the day and thought I'd have to be a meanie about his new Wii and DS. Wow, was I pleasantly surprised!

DS probably played Wii for a total of 10 hours all summer, and his DS rarely made an appearance except during trips. The tv stayed off without incident, and yet his days were filled! He created two "summer camps," read more than 100 books, came up with a novel series (he's on book 2), decided to practice typing, played constant math games w/ friends in our car and figured out math puzzles/facts (ie how many days old was his 2 year old brother?), insisted on going to 2 weeks of vacation bible school, science camp, and art camp, studied astronomy, chose 8 museums to visit and helped plan our Crater Lake trip, ("this is the coolest HS subject ever," he declared at a natural history museum where he spent hours reading about native tribes), asked for additional swimming lessons, picked out projects from SOTW to do on his own...and the list went on and on. He also has numerous friends and his weeks are filled with taekwondo, soccer, swimming, and playdates, so he's not a loner desperate for something to do. He simply wants to learn..... and we simply "unschooled."

Since I'm s high type-A "structure person" myself, I can't say that this has convinced me to chuck my planning and become an unschooler all school year. I can't imagine this working for the majority of 6 year old children we know. HOWEVER, I am convinced that it works wonderfully for children like him when the parents are carefully monitoring to make sure the "important things" also make their way in. For those parents who put in the extra effort needed to allow this freedom, it can be wonderful!

Through our own experiment, it has also taught me to follow more of what my son needs. Now, though we have our list of ideals to hit every day, I listen more to his needs. When he has a new idea for his chapter, I suspend my plan long enough for him to get it down. When he wants to study more about Spartans instead of the Aztecs, or take a month from life science to learn the constellations, I follow his lead. He's a happier student, and I usually end up learning something from him.

I'm going against the grain with this one. �I've been teaching my son since an early age. �I'm teaching �him phonics with short consistent daily lessons because that is how he will be taught throughout his school career. �
I know how much you can accomplish in a few short dedicated weeks. �I was known to read ahead in my textbooks and finish all the review questions in the book for the year in the first few weeks. �Who couldn't? I've seen my son work on other things with that same efficiency. �I just wanted him to learn the other way to learn things too. �
I'm going to let him go to school (as long as he behaves) �And the part I'm taking into my heart from the philosophy of unschooling is that we should explore this amazing world together. �You can't call me an unschooler because I believe we should all try almost everything. � Paraphrasing my dad, "I'm encouraging my kids to try to do everything because while it's important to find out what you're good at and what you like to do, it's equally important to find out all the wonderful things in this world that you s*** at". � (I should google a synonym for that word:).�
The caveat that the more unschooly parents have given me (beyond the general possibility of extinguishing their love of learning) is that by teaching him to learn by the methods the school will teach him, maybe instead of adding another perspective to his understanding I will inadvertently be squashing his natural learning style and replacing it.

I did read all the pages. �I would only add that the family who would let the kid skip school and be a couch potato (not the unschoolers here, the hypothetical ones) is probably going to be proud when said kid has a family, lives close by, and gets promoted to manager of the gas station. �And the pride will be over having a family. �Maybe those particular unschoolers really don't care if the kid comes from behind and becomes wildly successful at in the final moment. �Of course there's also a whole industry around belated adult education. �