Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Intense behaviors.. gifted or aspie?

Hi, I am new here. I am not sure where to post this. So, I hope this is ok.
I will try to make this as short as possible..
My ds (6.5) has always been bright (i.e. knew alphabet,all sounds, read three letter words, able to count, numbers, shapes, pretty much all K skills at age 18-24 months). He has always had no trouble making friends. In fact, he has requested to "play with a friend" every day since he could talk. We had a close social network where we lived so we had lots of friends with children the same age. We moved when he was 4 (and had a baby 9 days before move). A few months after the move, he began to become very agitated and upset when we would go to church and drop him off at nursery. At the same time he hated his tags in his clothes, hated the smell of popcorn ( he seems to have the nose of a hound dog). Anyway, I am a speech pathologist. I did not want to be the parent who misses the big picture so we took him to a developmental pediatrician who, after seeing him for 20-30 minutes, declared he was most likely gifted and diagnosed him with aspergers. I was totally caught off guard because as a speech pathologist, I had always seen kids who were not social, did not exhibit social reciprocity, had trouble with nonverbal communication. My ds cries if someone else should be sad because he is so empathetic. He is always worried about how other people feel. He wants a playdate every day of the week. He does not have difficulty with conversation with anyone of any age group. He loves lego and star wars lego in particular. When an activity at church or elsewhere is a little on the Kindergarten level he tends to be "bored" and not want to do it. I'll never forget when he came home from pre-k (3yr.old) and was in trouble for not sitting and coloring. I asked him why he wouldn't color and his answer was , "the a says aaa, the a says aaa, how many times do I have to learn the a says aaa". In summary, I have been perplexed by the possibility that he may be asperger's since he is so social. But, I had no other explanation for his intensity across every aspect of life. Then, earlier today on a homeschool forum I saw others describing their gifted child as intense intellectually and emotionally. Does anyone have experience with your child being misdiagnosed as aspergers? No matter how many times I read the DSM-IV criteria, I cannot make him fit it. He is too social. In my former life as a SLP, I administered testing and am pretty trained in DSM criteria. But, I don't want my mommy eyes to trick me. Also, I do not want him to have the aspergers label if it is not accurate. I have a friend who is an occupational therapist who knows my child pretty well. She does not think he falls into the aspie criteria at all. Thanks for reading all of this. Any advice or experiences would be appreciated. I am debating a full psych. eval. Not sure if dh will go for this!! Thanks, Kim
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Hi Kim,

He doesn't sound any more intense than the gifted kids here. That is probably because the gifted kids here tend toward the higher LOG (levels of giftedness) and it seems like there is a general tendency that as they get 'more unusually gifted' they get more 'unusually intense' as well.

I would reccomend a second opinion from someone who can do a psychoeducational evaluation - IQ and Achievement tests. It would be good to find a someone who is very familiar with the more unusual LOGs and also AS.

Two testers who come to mind are:
Amend Psychological Services, 'Dr. Ed' - who is one of the cowriters of Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults: ADHD, Bipolar, OCD, Asperger's, Depression, and Other Disorders and a totally awesome guy.

Author(s): James T. Webb, Ph.D., ABPP-Cl, Edward R. Amend, Psy.D., Nadia E. Webb, Psy.D., Jean Goerss, M.D., Paul Beljan, Psy.D., ABPdN, F. Richard Olenchak, Ph.D.

http://www.giftedbooks.com/productdetails.asp?id=34
www.amendpsych.com/

The other tester is:

Gifted Resource Center of New England
Directed by Deirdre V. Lovecky, Ph.D. "I have been a clinical psychologist for more than 25 years, and specialize currently in working with gifted children. ...
www.grcne.com/

who wrote Different Minds: Gifted Children with AD/HD, Asperger Syndrome, and Other Learning Deficits


At least look through both books, but it's really hard to shake a misdiagnosis from someone of authority wearing a white coat- so I would just advise you to choose one of these experts and plan a vacation around testing by someone who knows LOG and AS.

The root of the problem is that these high LOG kids are rare enough that most teachers and doctors and psychologists think that they know all about them - and they don't.

It is true that some highly gifted kids who have AS don't looks like the more typical presentation of AS. If this is true, then you want to know from someone that you can trust, who can guide you. The 'a says aaa' likely hasn't gone away, right?

Post more, longer posts are usually better, and read up on the challenges facing the parents here. I think you'll start to see that the tags in clothing and hyper-reactions to smells is quite common.

((We couldn't bring DS into a Chinese restaurant for 3 years for every a minute without a tantrum - ages 3-6.))

Love and More Love,
Grinity

As you know that sound not even a teeny tiny bit like Asperger's. I agree with the suggestions of Dr. Amend or Dr. Webb. If travel is not an option you could consider a phone interview and a review of his records.

And, really diagnosing Asperger's after a twenty minute appointment. Shame on that developmental pediatrician.

Definitely sounds like a misdiagnosis and Grinity was spot on with her book recommendations.

Gifted children without the added label of 2E (twice exceptional) are sensitive children. Your son sounds not only like my DD but like many others who post on this board. My DD has shown no signs of aspergers yet I can not completely rule it out. It really is hard to diagnose aspergers before they are 7 yrs of age, but as a toddler I haven't seen anything that would lead me down this path. She does have SI (Sensory Integration) and it sounds like this is what you are witnessing with your son. DD's SI isn't as intense as others but we have had some battles to overcome it. We still have to be careful with her clothes. She won't wear anything scratchy and definitely nothing with tags in it.

Here is a website that might be of interest:

http://www.sengifted.org/index.shtml

Along the sensory line--not just tags but, in my DDs case, corduroy and velvet. Can't stand to touch 'em. Can't stand for other people to touch 'em. I can't even back up my cloth-seated car (you know, turn around with my arm on the passenger seat) without her squealing because the cloth is too fuzzy.

I wondered a little early on, but--like you said--she's just too darned social for me to think it's AS.

My little one doesn't like smooth socks, so if the socks have decorations the socks would be lumpy. No tags. Lots of things have too great a smell. Sounds are too loud, mostly, children, people, places with lots of people.

Just capable of noticing all these little details. But able to play and be social with others.

And yes, please don't make me learn something I already know says my little one.

Oh Yeah - textures. Due to allergies I went out and bought microfiber comforters that dust mites can't get into. Turns out that DS hates that slippery texture.

When DS gets anxious, his behavior can get stuck into rigid patterns, that to school folks looks like 'intermittent AS.' Which doesn't exist.

DS is diagnosed with ADD, so he is 2e, but AS was ruled out by one of the abovementioned experts, so I just nod and say - 'Hummm'

In a way, I'd rather have the school folks thinking AS-like than SOB.
But yeah, DS does fall apart under high stress - less every year, but most adults I know still have their moments, yes?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

My DH is like that with those fabrics - fleece, too. It's a pity, he hates many of my favourite clothes :-( DS seems to be free of that kind of sensory issue, but has plenty of other overexcitabilities.

My experience has been that GT kids with AS often manage to compensate when they're young, because the requirements of the environment aren't that tough. It can be really tough to tell one way or the other at this age -- sometimes it's obvious, but if it's not obvious, then best to watchful-wait. I know quite a number of kids whose parents were told by an evaluator, "Couldn't possibly be AS" when they were 6, but by age 10-12, the AS was much clearer. (I have in all cases refrained from saying, "I told you so." (grin))

However, I've also seen a pattern that is as you say, more the opposite -- an overwhelming empathy and sensitivity (usually both sensory and emotional). Because a lot of the same shutting-down defenses get used against being overwhelmed, kids are often misdiagnosed as having AS.

It's complicated. Agreed that I would trust Ed Amend, Nadia Webb, or Dee Lovecky to do a thoughtful job of analysis.

Thanks to everyone for their input. I took Grinity (and others) advice and went for a full eval from one of her recommended professionals. It was amazing how long the evaluation took compared to our previous eval! It was extremely thorough and I feel very comfortable with the results and our plan for handling ds at this point! My Mommy instinct was correct. He, " does not qualify in any way for the diagnosis of Asperger's". Instead, he felt that the behaviors are better described under the diagnosis of gifted with significant ADHD. He felt that the sensory and emotional stuff can be explained with the overexcitabilities in gifted children. We do have to decide what to do with the significant ADHD issue. But, I feel better that I wasn't crazy to think that he didn't "fit" criteria for Asperger's. So, we are moving forward. It has been a great week. I am trying to respect his overexcitabilities but not accept the way he expresses them. For example, "I know that you are frustrated with the smell of that but you may move away from it instead of screaming". We are all doing better. It is likely because I have chilled out! Thanks again to all for your input, especially those who recommended professionals who are well-trained in gifted and dual diagnosis.