Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Reading, writing, spelling... or not?

It sounds like you've got the drawing issue under control.


Why do you need to know whether (and to what extent) your son can read? What do you think he'd get out of structured practice time?

The problem with teaching is that there can be collateral consequences on motivation. But as long as those aren't negative, I don't see a problem with teaching reading. I think most kids would become good readers more quickly with instruction, even if they are beginning to read on their own.

I don't see it as any different from teaching a kid to speak. They're both intelligence enabling skills that have to be learned, and if it's helpful I will grease the wheels a bit. As a result I expect my kids to have a richer set of knowledge early on, to take advantage of the early years better.

The only way I would not consider teaching verbal and written language skills is 1) if my child already was advancing so fast, on their own, that I could not figure out a way to help the process along, or 2) the teaching was having an adverse effect, which would simply mean that I was doing it wrong.

We teach our kids to speak. Why not to read and write? I think it is natural for a parent, when she hears her kid trying out a new word, to weave into the conversation a couple of different uses of the word, etc. I notice good parents doing such things often. Reading is different because it doesn't come up in everyday life so constantly. Unless one wants to teach one's child to read merely in the context of signs etc. as they come up, some level of structure is implied, in my opinion.

Something we agree on!!! But I think that children don't need to be taught to speak or to read, in most cases. In any event, I didn't do anything to help DD learn other than talking and reading to her.

Even deciding to read to her is structured, if you made a conscious decision to do it every day as part of an overall plan to help her learn.

The question is not whether children can learn to speak or read without (what I guess we should preface with "highly") structured teaching. The question is whether such teaching actually helps or not. Do you have some sort of evidence that your children would be negatively impacted if you had taught them a little more, instead of surrounding them with knowledge and leaving them to their own devices? Or do I misundsertand what you do for them?

I've met plenty of smart people with sub-par language skills as adults. Some probably post on this forum regularly.

When she was a baby, I read the books I was reading aloud to her because I wanted to read and she'd fuss if she couldn't hear my voice. When she was old enough to ask to be read to I only read to her when she asked. I do it because she asks, not because I want her to learn. And it's not (and never has been) an everyday thing in our house.


Do you have some sort of evidence that your children have benefited from your instruction? All anyone really has is theory and anecdote, and our theories and anecdotes are obviously different.


Ouch. Am I to understand that you believe that if my mother, for example, had actively tried to teach me to speak as an infant (and I can assure you that she did not) that I would speak better as an adult?

I'll start by answering a question you didn't ask - Is this about me? Yes, I suppose it is.

As the responsible parent, there are several things that seem to be indirectly linked to the how much Kai comprehends what he's reading, or understands what he's trying to write. He's not happy at Preschool and I'm lacking the confidence to ask for their assistance because I don't know what to ask for. I'm feeling attacked by some close people for allowing him to do things possibly beyond his capabilities as this equates to "setting him up to fail" and the meltdowns are by default, my own doing. Add to this the usual amount of exhaustion, frustration and emotion when dealing with a high-energy, intensely independent child and there you have it.

I don't know, maybe I'm way off base for thinking any of this is relevant and I probably don't even belong in this forum. I certainly wasn't suggesting that I take up daily "hothousing" and I'm in no way qualified to add anything to the discussion re the benefits of having structured learning taking place at home. My boy will undoubtedly move through this somewhat awkward stage so I'll just keep trying to do what I can to help him be happy.

Many thanks to the folks who offered suggestions and understanding.

You are very welcome in the forum. Debating schooling versus unschooling is purely recreational.

Don't get me wrong, upforit; I love having information, and I totally understand wanting to know where your kid is at. I even understand wanting to teach him. I once had a fantasy where I taught DD everything just so...until I met her and, thankfully, realized that she had other plans. If he seems to want help learning to read or write, by all means, help him...but if he doesn't seem to want it, I don't think that there's any reason to do it at this point.

Do you want to talk about his issues with preschool? I got the impression from your earlier posts that he was enjoying it and doing well. But if he isn't, well, DD doesn't go to preschool, of course, but if anyone knows about advocating with a school, it's the parents on this bulletin board.

here is my very sleep deprived early morning two cents: for the most part, speech actually comes more naturally than reading. Our brains are wired to acquire spoken languge in a much more direct way than the ability to read. Of course some children need more direct intervention with speech, but in general, most children pick it up from just listening, yet parents do label items for their children, correct their grammar, extend their sentences to help their vocabulary, etc. We do it almost unconsciously half of the time. Some children need almost no direction whatsoever in reading, but many if not most children need more explicit instruction. My DD4 was one of those who just picked it up, but I could see the benefit of stepping in now and helping her to improve. Don't we do that with so many things like learning to ride a bike, drawing etc? Truth is, my DD doesn't really let me help her improve in any of those areas--not in riding a bike, not with letter writing, not with dressing, not with reading, so she makes it virtually impossible for me to help, but if she were more open to it as some children may be, I think it is normal for parents to want to help kids improve skills.

So you never read to your child without her asking you to? I think that's pretty unusual. I respect you for adhering perfectly to your hands-off approach.

I do things because I want my child to learn. That pretty much is the motivation for many things I do, including the times when I leave him alone to do what he wants as well as the other times, when I suggest something for us to do together.


Anecdotal evidence is some evidence. My point is partly that rejecting all structured teaching without a basis for belief that it's wrong just doesn't seem logical to me, though I admit that I haven't taken the time to find out what research may support unschooling. Still, many brilliant people, presumably PG by today's standards, have been taught quite rigorously and in structured ways. When you teach someone a concept, they learn it if the teaching is done properly; and you can even teach learning strategies. One great thing about people is our adaptability.

While I support anyone's personal choice (I am sure your children will muddle through quite fine regardless of our different choices, as will mine and most people's), I am just curious about the basis for questioning someone else's choice to teach their little one.


I am sure that your mother did actively teach you to speak, since parents regularly do this, and intelligent parents do it much more in my experience. I mean no offense, but I am certain on this, especially as your early language instruction must have predated the unschooling movement, so she would not have had any reason to consciously curb her natural urge to teach you to speak.

I believe (as a layperson) in the general idea that the early years are important growth periods, and so I think it's a key time to expose children to things that will help them grow. I don't understand why the choice of those things has to be solely in the hands of the child; I would think that a lot of children would not be their own best teachers, all the time and on all subjects.

On the other hand, I think that being ram-fed information all the time would be bad for kids, because they would get to be passive consumers of information and that might result in a lack of drive and self-confidence. I see a lot of merit in self-directed learning activities, but just don't understand why it is viewed by some as the only correct option, exclusive of all others.

You might be interested in this article.



Hm. I can't help but read sarcasm into that. At any rate, I didn't adopt unschooling as a policy until about a year ago. Until then, I did it mostly because DD would not tolerate anything else (and I didn't see any point in forcing the issue). She's always been the sort of kid who knows exactly what she wants and won't put up with anything else. If she hadn't asked me to read to her often, I might have worried about it and tried to force her to listen, but she has always loved books. She led me to unschooling, and I'm glad that she did, because I think it is the best thing for our family.


Here's the thing: if we have anecdotal evidence that your kid is doing well being taught and my kid is doing well not being taught, that tells us absolutely nothing about which system is better. It makes very little sense to me to make a child engage in rigorous education without evidence that it will benefit the child.


I haven't done that, have I? The OP was asking whether she should teach her son or not, given that he seems unhappy but doesn't want to be taught. You gave advice that I disagreed with. I enjoy discussing this on a theoretical level but I'm not sitting around judging people.


Actually, the term unschooling was coined in the mid-70s, a few years before I was born, but of course the ideas were around much longer. I guess I should ask her whether she'd heard of unschooling at that time. But I would note that what I did with my own DD was not the result of curbing my natural urge (!), but of following my instincts. And all of my reading at that time (which did not include unschooling literature, btw) indicated that it's a bad idea to correct a young child's speech, and that children learn to talk easily if you talk to them. In fact, I can't really picture what you mean when you say that parents teach their kids to talk. That seems very strange to me, to be honest.



Well, I agree that the early years are probably pretty important. But the things that I think are most important (in life generally, and especially in those years) don't include academics. I guess I'd have to say that, if I could choose the most important things I'd like DD to get out of her preschool years, they'd be: first, that she learn to feel safe, loved, and confident; second, that she learn the rules of socially acceptable behavior; third, that she learn to use her body effectively; fourth, that she learns how to deal effectively with emotions; fifth, that she learns what she likes and what interests her; sixth, that she learns that she is responsible for herself...and so on. I'd probably get to academics, well, maybe twentieth. Or maybe not at all.

Now, if your priorities are different, and it appears that they are, that's fine. Your strategy is obviously different, and that's fine. As I said earlier, I'm not sitting around judging parents who are doing what they think is best for their children. And I am totally open to the idea that unschooling might not be right for some kids. It's clearly working well for DD (and I think that even someone who believes strongly in early academics would think she was doing well). That is my experience, with my child. I am not so egotistical as to believe that I could possibly judge what is right for every child in every situation.