Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional How can I know if there is a learning disability??

OK, I am completely confused. MY dd 10, recently took the WISC iv. There are severe discrepencies between the subtests which I have read if there are discrepencies over 15 points then a learning disability is likely. However, I also read to be diagnosed with a learning disability, there has to be discrepancies between IQ and achievement, which there is not. She has a very low processing speed. Has a hard time with math and despises writing.
Here are her scores
VCI 146 (99.9%)
similarites 18
vocabulary 18
comprehension 17

PRI 121 (92%)
block 11
picture concepts 15
matrix reasoning 14

WMI 107(68%)
digit apan 10
letter number sequencing 13

PSI 85(16%)
coding 6
symbol search 9

FSIQ 123
GAI 140

She is very much an Introvert and a perfectionist. Everything she scored low in has to do with visual motor processing. However, it is noted by the tester that she completed the harder designs but not the easier ones. She is an avid reader and started reading at 2.
How do I know if the processing issue is a disability or just her personality? Most likely a Visual Spatial learner.
Also, knowing that she has a slow processing problem I don't think that the WISC iv was the best test to determine IQ. She always freaks on timed test. I also read that:

Should I pursue additional testing? How would I find a tester that still uses the SB L/M? The extended scoring on the wisc did not raise her score at all.
What tests should be done to see if there is an LD? Thanks for your responses. I have been completely stressed about this because obviously I want to help her if there is a problem and I have been trying to advocate for a grade skip and worried that these test scores will not help my cause.

Wow -- that's a *massive* spread.

I think processing speed can be slow from being tentative or from being perfectionist or from being slow. Do you see speed as a stumbling block in real life? Do you think the test was accurate?

I do not think ceilings seems to play much of a role since none of the scores were 19, but I think Dottie will disagree with me on this one .

I also don't think the 15 points makes much sense -- it depends on the other scores. I have a kid with more than 20 points between VCI and PRI, but PRI was still 99th (extended scoring on VCI) and to argue that means an LD just makes no sense. But the difference between 99.9 and 16% is *huge* and may indicate something important.

Ideally, you'd get a detailed eval from someone well-versed in LD. If that's an obstacle, I found I got a lot of info from the WJ Cog looking for LD for one kid. It was much more detailed in terms of learning styles and what would help a particular kid learn better than basic AT or IQ.

I think it's reasonable to pursue further if this matches what you see with your DD.

Finally, I think the SB-LM doesn't give you any current info. It will likely give you a very high score, but not one based on current norms and thus not a valid high score. If I were you, I'd put more effort into getting a sense of learning style and possible LD than SB-LM, but JMHO and all that!

In our sd, they only look at academic indices (VCI and PRI) against achievement tests when determining if a learning disablitiy is present. In the case of your dd, she should have achievement scores (math, writing, AND reading) within about 15 points of the highest index (so, she should score at least 131 on all of the acheivement tests. Also, her FSIQ is not valid because of the difference in her scores.

Having said that, I think there are things you can do to improve processing speed. Here's a link to an earlier thread:
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted..../true/Re_processing_speed.html#Post66457

She was given bits and pieces of other tests.
She was givin the Berry Visual motor integration which she scored high average 77%, WJIII Achievement+ Written Expression she scored 93% But on WJIII Cognitive Ability Processing Speed was 24%. On standardized testing she scores in the 99% on all subjects.
I have been researching LD's and nothing seems to fit. And like I said, it doesn't seem to affect her academically. But when I came across Dr. Silverman's description of a visual spatial learner, it seems to fit. She even seems to have a slow response when you ask her a question. You can see her mind turning as she thinks of the response she is going to give.
So do you think I am worrying for nothing?

According to a special ed teacher I know, our sd uses the higher index (of VCI and PRI). I don't know why.

She hates the physical act of writing. Sometimes has a hard time "starting" such as an essay. She will just sit there frustrated but once you through some ideas on how to start, she takes off.
Math, well she had a hard time on the Mad Minutes. A timed test. Would go completely blank. The teacher knew that she knew them so gave her an oral test and she did fine.
At this point, no interventions have ever been needed in school. And this year, with a teacher who understands gifted kids and is really challenging her, she has been fine with all of the written stuff. Not complaining as she did in previous years.
I think am going to make an appointment for an eye exam. I had a problem and had vision therapy when I was young. I just never thought about it because she is a fast, avid reader and writing is beautiful once she gets started both in appearance and content.
Thanks. I just worry to much I guess. Just trying to pick at anything the administration would look at as negative.
One last thing, I do think that perfectionism plays a part. For example, she was a late talker. I was very worried because my first was talking complete sentences at 1. She was 22 months before we heard her say anything, and then she was singing the alphabet perfectly. She does alot of stuff like that. Not letting someone knows what she does until she knows she can do it good. Just her personality I guess.

Ok, I am over analyzing again. But here is an article I found on subtest analysis.
http://www.srmhp.org/0202/iq.html

Also, doing more reading on the Gifted Development Center on Visual Spatial Learners. This just really seems to fit her to a "T". Dottie, I know what you said about block design being high, but this is what I found:
"May have wide discrepancies on different portions of IQ tests. Scores may be much higher on spatial relations (e.g., Block Design) and measures of verbal abstract reasoning (e.g., Vocabulary, Similarities, Comprehension, Information) than on measures of attention and sequential memory (e.g., Arithmetic, Digit Span, Coding). "
While not high, she does score higher on block design than on digit span and coding. Also, in the testers notes is says
"On block design, she missed completing two designs correctly. However, it should be noted that she completed the two hardest designs on this subtest"
Just a thought. I will try not to worry so much.
Thanks.

Hi, I'm new to this whole forum thing, but I've been reading for a few weeks and have a couple of questions that I am hoping I can get answered here. My DS10 (4th grade) took the Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scale of Intelligence III test at age 5-2m. He had the following results:

Verbal Scale:

Information 15
Vocabulary 16
Word Reasoning 16

Performance Scale

Block Design 8
Matrix Reasoning 14
Picture Concepts 16
Picture Completion 17

Scale Quotient Scores

Verbal 135
Performance 116
Processing Speed 113

Full Scale I.Q. 127

My first question is why might the block design portion be so low and how much would that throw off the full scale I.Q.

Would it be worth have him retested now to see is there has been an improvement.

He scores high on all the stadardized testing he's taken (ex. Map scores are in the mid 220 in all subjects, He scored in the 98% in his 3rd grade Illinois Standard Achievment tests, and we are waiting on the results from the explore test he just took.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Bill

Can you ask the psychologist who administered the test if these results are indicative of a learning disability?