Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment WPPSI III Results and Questions

I have not asked for help from you guys in over six months, which is awesome since it is because DD9 is doing wonderfully at her new GT school.

However, DD4 was recently tested for the first time using WPPSI III, and we got the results today:
Subtest Raw Score Scaled Score
Block Design 24 14
Information 29 18
Matrix Reasoning 13 13
Vocabulary 28 17
Picture Concept 17 16
(Symbol Search) 7 11
Word Reasoning 24 18
Coding 19 13

Verbal IQ = 147
Perf. IQ = 127
Pr. Spd. IQ = 110
FSIQ = 139

My first question is regarding the discrepancy between the Verbal, Performance, and Pr. Spd. IQs. I thought I remembered reading that if there is a point difference of more than 15 points, it could mean an LD or something. Should we be concerned about the point difference?

Secondly, what does matrix reasoning mean?

And third, the Child Psych. suggested that we do some OT since the tester says DD4 hold a pencil in a strange way, which could have impacted her Processing speed. To apply for the GT school that ODD is in, we need a 140 FSIQ minimum. Do any of you have experience where OT really made a difference? This will be an out-of-pocket cost we were not planning for, so I want to ensure it is worth it.

Other thoughts on what these scores mean? This is our first experience with the WPPSI, so I am not sure what these scores mean.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Very strong verbal scores! I have this explanation of Matrix Reasoning from dd's report, "a nonverbal analogies test requiring attention to orientation, pattern, and other variables". SO, I guess similar to the typical patterns in IQ-like tests.

Our Dd, also tested at 4 (4.5) has a very similar profile. In her case, we are not sure whether the difference between performance and verbal means that her verbal skills far exceed her math abilities. THis could result in a lot of frustration to her. However, it can also mean that she still has to grow in her non-verbal abilities.

We are NOT, at the moment, worrying about her lower processing speed. Again, we think this is related to perfectionism on her side that lead her to not draw/write much before. A couple of months after her test, she has grown tremendously in that area. I guess I would just keep an eye on it.

Finally, on to the school, given that it is just one point, are they willing to make exceptions. HEr very strong verbal score might warrant it. Another way to go about this is to ask the tester to calculate the FSIQ w/o the processing speed. THis would be analogous to a GAI.

Instead of OT, I would work with her on fine motor skills and writing in a playful way. It is recommended to give the kids very small pencils, as this naturally encourages proper pencil grip.

Finally, with her qualifying VIQ, are you planning on applying to YSP when she is 5? Is your ODD a DYS?

Thanks so much for the reply Mam. I hadn't thought of asking for a score calculation without the Processing Speed - great idea.


I believe you have to have a 150 or higher on the WPPSI for DYS, right? ODD is not a DYS - she also did not score a 150 on the SB5, which is what she took.

Thanks again! Anyone else have advice?

Ah, right... I forgot, duh! Yes, that is where YDD is at, 99.9 but not at the 150. Since English is our DDs second language, we do plan to retest with WISC in a couple of years.

Ok Wanna -
I love OT, but it can get expensive. Here's my 'home version.'
1) lots of hand strengthening activities that are fun - kneading bread dough, paper mache, sewing, crochet.
2) how to hold a pencil -Dangle it between the thumb and first finger, then swing it around.
3) 10 minutes a day of 'handwriting without tears'
http://shopping.hwtears.com/category/1stGrade
My Printing Book for example, or some of their 'readiness materials' if she isn't there yet.

We complained about our son's pencil grip to his OT in 2nd grade, and she said: Oh mine's much worse - and blew us off. Nice lady, but...

YMMV - but you may want to try a little hothousing first.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

OT did make a difference in everything else, though.

Thanks so much for your perspective Grinity. It is so hard to decide when to save money and when to decide that it's worth it :-)

It is really tough -
Do you see any 'discorrdination' or 'LD' in day to day life? Is she normally physically active? Do her weaknesses interfere with her daily life.

I'm a bit skeptical of the 15 points = LD rule when applied to kids with scores in the 3rd DS. It's the old 'association/causation' question.

Here's the main points I'm getting:
1) Will the gifted school accept your dd with the scores she has (getting the idex that leaves out the Processing speed and WM?)

2) If they won't: At what age does DD4 have to get a score so she will be allowed to go to ODD's school?

3) At that age, when you get the WISC IV, make sure to go to someone who is really getting PG kids, so you can get 'real' advice about if DD4 has a LD.

4) In the meantime, consentrate on the handwritting and hand strenth in a 'balanced push' way. I picture it as the Mom standing behind the kid, with one hand pushing from the back, and another hand bracing in front so the kid doesn't bust any metaphorical teeth.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I'll try to address each of your questions/points above:

1a. We don't believe she has an LD, but I thought I would ask since I remembered reading that on this forum.

1b. No, the school requires a FSIQ of 140 just to apply, and then they narrow it down from there. Last year less than 10% of those who applied got in, and a friend tried to talk them into accepting the index that leaves out PS and WM to no avail.

2. If we want to spend the money on the testing each year, we can try for the next 5 years to get the right score to apply. Of course, the sooner the better for many reasons. If we want her to start there in 1st grade, she needs that score a year from now.

3. Good point. We actually chose the best Psych. in town for this. She is on the board of all the gifted associations in the town and state, she only works with gifted, her daughter also goes to ODD's awesome school, etc., so I would choose her again. Of course, I didn't think to ask her about LDs at our meeting, but I'm sure if she were concerned she would have brought it up (and I'm not really concerned at this point either). She believes it is normal development that caused the lower PS score, but that since one point makes all the difference for our application, she recommends hiring an OT to speed up the development process so that we are sure it won't make the difference between 139 and 140 next year when it really counts.

Of course, if DD4 had gotten the 140 this year, we could have applied early and potentially gotten her accepted now to begin 1st grade there two Falls from now (they don't have K). We were not doing the test for that reason though; it was to decide whether to do early entrance for K since DD4 barely misses the cutoff and just to know sooner what we're dealing with since we felt so clueless with ODD and didn't realize we had a HG kid until late in 2nd grade.

So, while we are not concerned about an LD, we are inclined to spend a bit of money to 'speed up her development' only focused on pencil grip in hopes of ruling out being foiled by Processing Speed next year. Does that sound crazy, or have others done something similar, and if so, how did it go?