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I'm not sure "abstract comparisons" is the correct term, but hopefully it'll work. I have 2y9m identical twin boys who've recently been diagnosed with some social communication issues (possible PDD). I posted on these boards about some of their skills back in March (http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/41688/1.html). To paraphrase, they had taught themselves the alphabet, upper & lower case, and all the letter sounds by 2 years old, in addition to some other things. Because of their communication problems, it's tough to tell where they're at cognitively. For example, if you try to get them to sort blocks by color, they look bored and wander off. But these are the same boys who'll spin the water blade-thing in the dishwasher and excited tell me "Dishwasher like a helicopter! Like a lawnmower!" The other day, one of them was drinking milk out of a no-spill straw sippy cup, and watching the milk get sucked back into the cup. He looked up at me and said "Cup just like a vacuum cleaner!" When we had the boys tested through Early Intervention, they wouldn't sort the Testers' toys the way she wanted, and as a result they scored low enough on cognition to qualify for services in that area too. It seems to me that the abstract-type comparisons they're making are advanced for their age, but I don't really know. Does anyone know when kids normally start doing this? Any input you guys might have is very appreciated! Thanks, Julie
DS2.6 won't sort things for me. No interest. I tried to interest him in a "game" of putting away the clean forks/spoons etc the other day. He just flies them through the air and says random things like, "the little mommy laughed to see such sport and the fork ran away with the spoon".
On the other hand he's quite capable of sorting when he initiates it, for example not too long ago we came home from the pet store and he gathered up every stuffed "pet" put them on one chair to make a pet store. He kept wanting more and I suggested his dinosaurs and he didn't want them, he said they didn't go. Similarly he didn't want a toy turkey/sheep/horse, presumably because those belong on a farm.
DS is lacking in obedience rather than ability (and I'm not complaining, I'm perfectly happy with his interest in self-direction, he'll need that later on). He doesn't test well though. The few times I've lost it and yelled at him he does an about face. (For example the other day he intentionally spilled out a whole jar of coins while looking for a penny and then flat out refused to help pick them up, for the second day in a row).
DS failed a early intervention exam (for speech issues now resolved) item for turn-taking, because he would not play ball. He's just not into balls. Back at the time of the evaluation he took turns just fine for eating yummy things that we were all sharing, pass around a spoon for ice cream for example he knew exactly who's turn it was.
Does identifying the rotational motions of a dishwasher, helicopter and lawnmower have at its base the same thinking as sorting? Seems like it is also an ability to see a similarity between items that are otherwise different, missing the motor aspect of physically putting them in one pile.
Here's the thing: My husband and I both really, honestly, truly thought that this was completely the norm. The boys rarely do these things around others, and we just assumed that other kids were doing the same things at home.
BTDT! My DS also was IDing the letters and their sounds at age 2, and then didn't learn to read until 1st grade! At 3 he was very into abstract thinking - G-d, and foodchains come to mind. Yeah, he is PG, but we didn't 'get it' until testing in 2nd grade.
Your boys sound lovely and fun.
I wouldn't be surprised that school folks aren't appreciative of 'abstract thought' - since so many are convinced kids don't have it, they don't think to look for it!
I would try and 'take they where they are' and give them the kind of info they seem to be interested in and not look at 'age-guidelines' anymore than you have to. I used to say that my DS was 'following his own developmental path, which although unusual, is normal for him.'
I'm guessing that they don't want to sort blocks by color, not because they can't, but because it doesn't interest them. If you showed them a prism - then that might catch their fancy!
In a way, my son was lucky not to be reading in Kindy, because it gave him something normal to do during the school hours. Each kids is gifted in their own way.
Polly: Thank you so much for linking that PBS site! That's exactly the type of milestone chart I've been looking for. My boys sound similar to your son -- they love to interact with people, but on their own terms. Like you, I see self-direction as a very positive trait, but there are definitely times I wish I could channel their energy to my directions!
Grinity: Thanks for your sweet response! The EI testers didn't seem very appreciative of "abstract thought" at all. You're exactly right there! During their evaluation, I mentioned the kinds of comparisons the boys were making, but whatever notes the testers made about it didn't end up in their final report. Maybe they were just humoring me by pretending to write it down. In a way it doesn't really matter because the boys are only getting therapy for their speech, but it threw me to see them identified as having below-average cognitive skills.
My son was "invisible" to the School Folks at his old school. I made up a story in my mind that his giftedness was like a pair of huge, heavy, invisible wings, that most teachers couldn't see. These wings were filled with light, and sparkled so brightly that looking directly at them could be painful.
Most people only saw the way those invisible wings knocked things over and made my son wobble when he walked. Everyone could tell he was different, and most thought he was just clumsy and awkward, and he was clumsy at walking, flying and sitting at a desk. His flying was clumsy because he was young and inexperienced, but I did sometimes observe tremendous grace. But didn't every mother find her own child to be miraculous at times?
There was almost no place to practice flying during the school day. We were concerned that he hold his wings politely in and not knock over the other children. It was sad that he came home so tired and worn out from holding those wings tightly against his body, but we didn't know what else to do. The wings would take care of themselves until the wonderful day when he could use them, wouldn't they?
It doesn't work quite that way, and we got quite an education. I'm grateful to my son for opening my eyes. It is sad as it is when a teacher doesn't see a child's wings. But there isn't anything sadder than a winged person who can't see his own wings, but only feels a vague heavy weight, and sees people around him get mysteriously knocked down.
The number one reason for educating ourselves about gifted issues, and unraveling our own pasts, is to be able to hold a mirror up to our children so they can see and understand themselves better, strengths and challenges both. -- Grinity
Great metaphor Grinity. I swear most schools these days not only don't see wings...if they do see them they clip them so the kids without them don't feel bad they don't have wings or don't get knocked over by them.
I wish I had a nickle for everytime a school admin said: 'Oh, we have handfuls of kids just like him. It took me a while to realize that they were really just being sincere.
Which reminds me of that classic spoof of all those well meaning folks:
Grinity: Hugs to you & your son, Grinity. It sounds like this has been a rough road for you both. I feel like I'm struggling to find a balance between what I suspect about my boys and what the experts are saying. Because they're so young, all I have is more and more questions. And the experts are *supposed* to know what they're talking about, right?! Thank you for sharing your experience here!
Breakaway4: That's exactly what I'm hearing about the school district we live in. Teaching to the middle used to be the norm here, but now they've lowered the standards.
Grinity: Good point! I forget about how small a portion of the population is gifted. Kind of puts it in perspective to look at it that way. I'm glad you're all doing well!
