Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Explosive Child and/or Nurtured Heart approach

hi everyone
i have a 2E MG DD7 and a HG+ DD5 who appears to be developing oppositional defiant disorder...Today I am seeing a therapist who likes to implement the "collaborative problem solving" from Ross Green (who wrote The Explosive Child)..

However after i made this appointment i found a copy of "The Nurtured Heart Approach" by Howard Glassman and (though sketchy on details) i found it to be a home run when it came to describing my DD5 and i've implemented some of the basic pieces of it to great succcess over the past few days.( Not sure if it'll work with DD7 who is non-oppositional.)

I am now confused whether i should be willing to switch to a method recommended by the therapist, or stick with Nurtured Heart. Does anyone know how they compare, and whether they are comaptible if i want to do pieces of each.

The great attraction to the Nurtured Heart is the understanding that my child can not "accept praise" and needs to learn to do that with "active noticing".. and the fact that she needs to be timed out "in place" due to the fact that i can't physically enforce a timeout for her.

Sorry to take the lazier approach -i should have got the "explosive child" by now but my library does not have it and want to hold off purchasing until i know what i'm doing! if anyone can nutshell it or compare the two methods, i'd be very grateful.

thanks

irene

I personally really like the explosive child method. The idea is that you teach your children to learn how to resolve problems by modelling that behavior yourself. With intelligent children, I think this particular approach works very well, but unfortunately I have no experience with the Nurtured Heart approach.

thanks artana
my conern with the explosive child approach is that it might not be good for kids who seem to thrive on "drama" and fear that if its a lot of talking about problems and issues with them, it might fuel them into being negative (does that make sense???).. my son, especially, seems to be the type of kid that you try not to engage too much when he's in a funk..but i could be way off on this because i am just imagining what the method is about.. off to my therapist appt.. will update!
irene

When I was dealing with intense meltdowns from my middle daughter (between the ages of 3-5.5), I came across the Explosive Child book that was highly recommended on two other different message boards I'm on.

Looking into it, I came across this caregiver handout designed to be a quick overview of the techniques to give daycare providers (or husbands who don't want to read the whole book etc) for the Explosive Child book that really gives a great overview of the book. I think it will help you decide whether or not it's worth it. I like it because it helps understand what's going on in the mind of the child, but I didn't implement the techniques.

Mostly it was by emotion coaching my daughter that helped with her multiple meltdowns a day and anger issues.

I created a Kid's Problem Solving Binder to help with picture social stories and other ideas to work on helping her to identify what she's feeling and help give her a voice rather than acting out her extreme frustrations.

I think, with the asynchronous behavior of gifted children, there's a lag in both cognitive flexibility and emotional regulation skills. The more highly gifted the child, the more emotionally intense the child tends to be (I don't have facts, just speaking from my own observations.

It can LOOK like ODD, but it is really not at all. It's simply not being able to identify and cope with INTENSE feelings of frustration. Sometimes the HG children also have sensory over-sensitivities too. The good part is that THEY NOTICE EVERYTHING, and the bad part is that THEY NOTICE EVERYTHING (either physical or emotional) stimuli. How many times has your daughter catches you or anyone else being hypocritical (even inadvertently)? Nothing slips past the HG child and you learn to NEVER, EVER even remotely make any statements you make sound like a promise because the inflexible HG child will make you live to regret it !

Living With Intensity is another good one to help understand the emotionally intense child.

It's not a problem that needs to be fixed as much as it's an experience of the world we need to help them manage. Emotion coaching and teaching the child to reduce their stresses (through something like ballet, or yoga) and PLENTY of exercise.

I'd also like to add, that if your daughter is anything like mine, she was an "emotional barometer" of me. If I was angry, or tense or snappish, or sad, or happy, so was she.

I can tell you, having my own sensitivities triggered by her high pitched meltdowns and angry outbursts, I found it incredibly hard to deal with her. And so did my husband. We all slipped down a downward spiral of anger and frustration. It was up to me and dh to work on our responses to dds meltdowns/tantrums while we helped her not have so many of them.

The Explosive Child book also helps to remind us that we parents need to intervene before the frustrations are high. It's easier to manage everyone's emotions when they are small.

Another good book for understanding the value of emotion coaching is Kids, Parents And Power Struggles by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.

I think, the more we can teach our children about emotions and what they CAN do when they are angry/frustrated when they aren't in the midst of frustration and stress, the better they are able to make good choices when they are feeling badly.

Most traditional behavioral extinction techniques (ie Time Out, Spanking, etc) address the issue too late. It's important to teach the kids who don't intuitively understand how to manage themselves.

You know the old adage - give a man a fish, feed him for a day...Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.

hey everyone
just got back from my appt. and the therapist was wonderful- i laughed and cried.. I feel a lot of hope. I still am not sure about Nurtured Heart vs. Explosive child, but just having a therapist who listened and GOT IT.. was amazing. He agrees that the tough part will be to find ways to parent that will work for both my children, who have hugely different needs.... So I picked up a copy of the Ross Green book today and am starting to dig in...

and kcab, i agree with oyou that there is just somethign different and purely "humane" the way Glassman presents his approach- i would love to find a therapist around my area that uses it, as i don't think i can do it without someone to go to for help.

but the Explosive Chlld does seem more researched and rich in detail, and probably more in line with what my DS7 needs.

but in any case, a very good morning, and thank you to all- i felt so great seeing all teh responses as soon as i got back home today huge thanks.

Hi Irene -
I found the nurtured heart approach books this July and I am thrilled out of my mind. I would definitly encourage you to cancel the 'explosive' orriented therapist and if the NHA speaks to you, 'do it as if your life depended on it' as they say.

I read 'explosive child' and I think it's great for
a) kids who really have communication disabilities
b) adults who really can't control themselves around their children, who need to be told that scarcasm and revenge-seeking and all the other adult kinds of tantrums aimed at kids might make them feel better short term, but won't help long term.

I recently read 'explosive' and was so deflated that it reccomended all the stuff that I had already been doing, but really didn't seem to be creating the kind of family life I had dreamed of. I think that my son and I, as you mention above, were hooked on the 'thrill' of the drama of it all. For me, the nurtured heart approach was truly radical, (who ever heard of interrupting a child quietly at play to praise them? or complimenting a tantruming child for not using swear words or breaking anything) and got me over the hump of 'don't just do something, sit there!' which is so difficult for me.

My guess is that all the parenting books work for someone - and for that person, they sound dramatic and exciting and radical.

Irene, I'm wondering which NHA books you have read...My favorite is 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook' which is available online for the price of a $20 monthly subscription over at energyparenting.com. They also have podcast and videos so you can see it in action. They also have a 'parent's forum' where you can post and read the other parent's posts. I haven't paid any of their coaches, but by posting intensely on their forums I've gotten enough handholding to make a go of it. The website also has a listing of their 'consultants' and you might find one locally, or use distance coaching.

I'm sure that this isn't the answer for everyone, but I do think that lots of gifted children are what the NHA people call 'intense' and that beyond understanding your child better, this particular approach is a way to actually 'grow' my child in the right direction.

For so many years I went with 'understanding and loving and waiting for him to mature' that it is very thrilling to have a gameplan. It is just now starting to feel natural to me, but it is a long way from automatic!

PM me if you have any more questions!
Grinity

hey grinity..
we must have been writing at the same time!! i read the basic "transforming the difficult child" book and bought the video of the 6 hour seminar. I am definitely thinking about what you are saying, though i can't respond in detail yet until i read a bit of the Explosive Child, but i think NH is definitely a home ron for DD5.

One of my favorite parts of Nurtured Heart was it finally explained what to do when she did not accept praise, and argued that she didn't derseve it. So now i just notice and notice things and its a different story. However, i am just so in need of a therapist to guide me. I feel very alone in it. On the positve side , the therapist i saw today is not JUST doing Explosive Child. HE seemed to really like what i'd been reading in NH and encouraged me.. seems he wants to put together a plan that will work for everyone in teh family. we really need it. In the meantime i 'm going to try a little harder to find a NH therapist (i'm in long island , ny) if anyone out there knows of one.

irene

irene

oh grinity i just re-read your post and noticed you already mentioned the link to consultants. thanks!
irene

I responded in red to some of the points.

We used the Explosive Child techniques along with advice from our psychologist, and it was perfect for our daughter. There has been a 180 degree difference with this approach.

With that being said, you need to determine what works best with your child. There is no wrong or right approach.

I remember back during the terrible-twos going through the entire "The Happiest Toddler on the Block" system and thinking it was a bunch of baloney. At that time, I couldn't imagine how any parent had success with that. It was then that I realized my daughter was her own person and that approach just did NOT work.

What works for one kid (who may even have the same "profile" as your child), may not work for yours.

Do what feels right to you. Also, do what is successful based on your measures of success, not anyone else's.

I have been reading this post with a lot of interest because we have been looking at the 2 options as well with our child...the old 123 book just didn't do much for us and DS6 is just too darn smart and seems to outsmart whatever program we attempt :-) so thanks for a great post

renie 1 - you caught my attention when you wrote "it finally explained what to do when she did not accept praise"...I thought we were alone in dealing with this issue...DS6 has from day one had a big issue with praise and compliments. He actually seems to get upset when we tell him we are proud of him or when he did an awesome job on something.

hi belle,
diito my DD5 seemed to get upset too at compliments and would start acting up immediately after. extremely frustrating. The Nurtured Heart Approach has taught me to comment on what actually IS, as opposed to how good I think something is..

For example, i used to say "great job writing that letter R" and she'd say "no its not, i started at the bottom instead of the top."..
Now I've learned to say somethign like "I noticed you wrote a letter R".. (no judgment, indisputable FACT).

its a subtle difference but so far has worked really well with her. i would have never thought of it.
irene

Hi Belle!
I love the NHA stories about a mom who had to wake her son up after an hour of sleep to say nice things about him - that's how fixed an image this kid had about himself not being worthy of compliments. Of course gifted kids have it worse because they are so much more aware - in such greater detail - of what real adult product looks like than a ND (normally developing) kid.

Love and more Love,
Grinity

Hi,

I just looked in Amazon about the Nurtured Heart book and for what I could read this approach is quite similar to the Kazdin method. I have his book and I like it very much, but it is not specially written for 'intense' or 'bright' children.

http://www.alankazdin.com/

What I found with the Explosive Child Method was validation and some strength to keep going. I was facing a school that while working with me, seemed to have already formed a negative opinion of my son, and I felt like I was constantly having to repeat that he was a good kid and he needed help.

The beginning of that book scared me a little because my son wasn't as intense as the examples in it, but I moved past them and found my favorite phrase of all time. I will paraphrase (though it will seem completely common sense to some of you):

A child will do well if the child can.

Simple as that. If the child has been scolded twenty times for the same thing, you can assume that the child understands they are not supposed to do it; therefore, scolding does not help. It attacks the issues as actual executive function skill deficiencies and walks you through how to hold the right type of compromise situations so that you can teach your child (and yourself) proper problem solving techniques. This simple information helped me regrow my backbone and jump into the fray again. And this year, no one questions that my kids are good kids, they help me to try to find ways to help them be their best.:)

Anyway, I'm glad the counselor has helped and I hope things keep going well.

I don't know much about either approach (though I really should as BOTH of my DC have over the top tantrums). However, I did watch Primetime last night, and while I KNEW all about the methods they discussed, it was more "real" for me to actually see it rather than read it.

My biggest issue, which has been part of the problem since DS5.5 (the "difficult" child) was a baby, is following through and being consistent. Regardless of what method you use to raise your children, nothing will work without those two things.

You described me and my issues with DS5.5's outbursts!!! Like him, I have intensity issues and often find myself kicking my own self for my reactions. This only leaves both of my DC nothing but confused.

Thanks Artana! That is exactly how I approached my DS13 for 12.5 years. However, I think that in many cases, it just isn't so, and I worry.

I used to go to bed crying sometimes because I couldn't figure this out. Out of my 3 girls, she was the only one to be so intense and have issues, so I know it wasn't my parenting skills. It wasn't a "goodness of fit" mismatch between my temperament and hers. We just so happened to have very similar emotional intensities. My own mom failed to show me how to deal with them, so at 38 years old I had to learn alongside her.

I took her to a neuropsych to help...and her best advice was about teaching her to recognize and cope with her emotions using social stories along with some SPD therapy I did at home and ballet and yoga to help calm her and working on what she learned between meltdowns. Oh, and feeding her protein and building in a lot of downtime after social interactions (for both of us!).

It has helped a great deal. Not that we don't ever have issues, but nothing to the degree we once had.

hey everyone
i got the therapists version of the Explosive Child (called Treating the explosive child) and i can say that if i was only doing this for my DS7 (2e, bigtime exectutive control issues) then it might really be THE method for us. I doubt very often that he CAN do the things we expect, at this point.. However, i can't fit my DD5 easily into the Explosive Child paradigm-- that explosive behavior is caused by an underlying cognitive issue. I think i can stretch her into it if i had to, by thinking of her cogniitve power (very HG) as a disability, but it is a stretch, and makes somethign positive into a negative.

However, if i had to merge the two methods (EC and NHA) i think i might be able to do it. I like the other basic notion in EC that the misbehavior is a result of a sort of mis-match between parent and child..and I am hoping i can use methods from the Nurtured Heart Approach as part of bridging the mismatch between myself and my daughter. In other words, I think Explosive CHild is more of a framework that can be used wiht a lot of kids, and Nurtured Heart Approach is more of a specific strategy for a specific type of child (intense, gifted, hooked on "energy"). Though i might be oversimplifying it now as i haven't finished the book.. Grinity, what do you think?

irene

Renie -

I want to ask something. Is the therapist sure she's truly developing ODD? Do you have more than one opinion on the matter?

A diagnosis of ODD is very serious. I would hope that you are very certain it's not something else that appears to be ODD at first blush. I'd want to make absolutely certain that the diagnostician was very familiar with gifted children and their emotional needs first and made sure they ruled out other causes of oppositional behavior. Sometimes the extremely frustrated, emotionally under-developed, highly gifted child can only act out their pain because they can't really understand what they are so angry/frustrated about.

Has your child been evaluated for possible sensory processing disorders? One of the things that tipped me off to my daughter having some sensory issues is the fact that she got carsick quite frequently. This is a problem in the vestibular sense. A lot of behavioral problems can be "caused" by untreated sensory over-sensitivities (particularly in the vestibular sense). Also, reactive hypoglycemia (seen in 5-7% of gifted kids)causes extreme "irrationality" for lack of a better term, in otherwise "good" kids. My daughter would go from Dr. Jekyll to Ms. Hyde when her blood sugar was low. She would change back with a protein-rich snack.

I thought my daughter might have exhibited ODD tendencies. It turns out, her seemingly mild sensory issues (the carsickness I almost shrugged off as a quirk, the fact she didn't care to wash her hands when she was 3 and seemed to outgrow it, and the fact that other "normal" volumes of sounds seemed to bother her, and loud sounds really bothered her for a while but seemed to go away with time) actually played a large part in her behavioral difficulties.

I had my daughter evaluated by a pediatric neuropsychologist to be sure what I was dealing with and what I was not.

I just want to be absolutely sure they covered other possible reasons for oppositional behavior.

Please if you haven't looked into it, please read James T. Webbs Mis-diagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults.

ODD is the second most common Misdiagnosis of Gifted Children.

You can check out the excerpt on Google Books here

Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Children and Adults.
starting on page 66

I wanted to publicly clarify something too as Grinity brought up something to me privately.

I'm not really arguing for or against the Explosive Child.

In fact, I don't use it except for the fact that it helped me understand that there are very good explanations as to why certain children do not respond to traditional behavioral modification techniques.

In fact, I don't use any "technique" to help my child who was difficult/spirited/oppositional (fill in the term of your choice) and was prone to melt down or dig in her heels 10 times a day over the course of 3-4 days. By that 4th day, I can honestly tell you, I wanted to a) run away or b) hang myself, because I couldn't cope. Even though I was grilled endlessly on some of my forensic cases, my 5 year old daughter's baffling behavior brought me to my knees.

Even though I spent 7 years learning about Attachment Parenting, Positive Discipline, and Playful Parenting (other things that worked well for my oldest and youngest daughter, so I know it wasn't that it wasn't my parenting techniques), I was having trouble "keeping up" with these meltdowns and other oppositional behaviors.

My daughter with those meltdowns was the one with severe social anxiety as well and selective mutism (a communication disorder in social settings - though she was highly communicative at home). Turns out they had a lot to do with each other, but the common element was a neuro-developmental delay (not a dysfunction or a disorder, just a delay in development) in her emotional regulation centers though her cognitive development was advanced. Or, in other words, she was developing asynchronously and her emotional intelligence (for lack of a better term) needed to be brought up to the level of her cognitive intelligence.

For her, the subtle sensory processing difficulties made it difficult for any messages I had to "get through". No matter how hard I tried to reassure her, to teach her things, didn't make one difference until I reduced her overall stress about how the world felt to her.

Interestingly enough, all her perfectionist tendencies seemed to mellow out as well. She's got a lot more tolerance for herself than she did 2 years ago.

I honestly don't know about the "Nurtured Heart Approach" with the exception that one blogger I know with an autistic child uses it and seemed to do well with it.

i know that you will be a difference-maker in your family! I think you will find ways to weave the two together! I think that the active recognitions will be great for both kids and that is a great starting place for NHA. Deciding to pick your battles is another great place to start with EC.

I think that teaching the actual missing skills to your son is going to help, and that NHA is one way to do the teaching, but in the long run, you will have to observe your child and see what works for him. You will lay the ropes on the bottom of the tank for the skills you son lacks, and 'shamu' him to speed his learning process.

So glad you feel supported by the therapist - that is excellent!!!!

That's what I think!

Smiles,
Grinity

you know, my DD gets carsick and throws up (almost) every time that we travel by car. She has visual issues (lack of convergence and poor accommodation) so maybe she has as well some vestibular ones. Another thing is that she too changes completely when her sugar level is low - or rather when she has not eaten for a few hours. As a baby she never let more that 1.5 to 2 hours without asking for being breast-fed. Even as an 'older' baby (6+ months) she would snack the whole day (and night, I am thankful that we co-slept).

I have my own meltdowns as well, and in fact if I get too hungry you better run away from me.

All three os us, DD DS and me are very intense, DD is very very sensitive, often reacts quite negatively yo praise (and so do I actually) and right now she is not happy at all at school. DS is mega stubborn (or persistent in a nice way), together with an uncanny ability to climb everywhere plus an insatiable curiosity, especially about things he should not touch.

I need holidays or a majordomo

Sciencemama.

((((Turns out they had a lot to do with each other, but the common element was a neuro-developmental delay (not a dysfunction or a disorder, just a delay in development) in her emotional regulation centers though her cognitive development was advanced. Or, in other words, she was developing asynchronously and her emotional intelligence (for lack of a better term) needed to be brought up to the level of her cognitive intelligence.))))

That sounds very much like my dd6. She did/does not have SPD issues, other than "normal" OEs, and a very good dose of those, BTW. However, she does seem to have trouble regulating her moods/emotions. She is one of the most intense persons I have met.

Can you tell me more about the "social stories"? I think I might have heard about them, but I am not sure. Certainly I haven't yet tried them.

Her therapist has been great at helping her recognize her emotions better and a lot of tricks and coping mechanisms.

I think there is a lot of good advice in The Explosive Child. For instance, all that about not wasting your time drilling things they already "know" but are unable to do. Also, finding common ground and problem solving sound reasonable. We have been able to achieve a lot of "peace" from doing this when she is receptive to the idea (i.e. calm and in a good mood). The tough part, is that for whatever reason, she got it in her head that asking her ANY question is AWFUL. She can't stand direct questions when she is irritable. Therefore, going with "Plan B" (the compromise method) is kind of impossible to achieve....

DD6 uses her amazing intra-personal intelligence to describe how her brain/emotions work. She describes how when she is angry, the thinking chambers in her brain get flooded; for example.

again, thanks to all, quite a sprited debate with lots of great info.
sciencemania, i have to admit i have been using ODD to describe my DD5 but she does not have that diagnosis. She is not six years old and i've read that the diagnoiss is not made until then. I think its a pattern that she has fallen into over the past two years at home and school. At school they found out early on she did "tricks" like reading at 3. She hated that.. and to make her continue they started using "reverse psychology" which they thought was a great idea, but was really teaching her about the powers of manipulating people. We are trying to undo a lot of this, and don't feel she will have a true ODD if we take drastic action now (hence NHA). The pyschologist who we saw at the time of her gifted testing did give her a diagnosis of "adjustment disorder", but he said it was because he felt there was something going on that needed to be addressed, evidenced by underachivement.. her achievement tests were over 3 SDS lower than aptitude.

so i am really hopeful and tomorrow will finish reading EC and then start mapping out a plan that will hopefully be good for all. I just hope and pray the therapist will support me trying to do all of this and not be too rigid about how we go about it.
irene

Hi Renie and other parents --
Just wanted to say thank you for your posts -- really informative for me! I'm new to this forum, and actually just posted a question regarding my son, who is four and also seems to be developing something like ODD (I posted a new topic before I saw this thread).

I especially appreciated Sciencemama's comment:

"I think, with the asynchronous behavior of gifted children, there's a lag in both cognitive flexibility and emotional regulation skills. The more highly gifted the child, the more emotionally intense the child tends to be (I don't have facts, just speaking from my own observations.

It can LOOK like ODD, but it is really not at all. It's simply not being able to identify and cope with INTENSE feelings of frustration."

This insight helps me so much -- my son is having difficulty transitioning back into school, dealing with some authority figures (but not all of them) and having anxiety and anger associated with school in particular. Just reading about similiar situations from other parents is such a relief!

My son hasn't officially been labelled as gifted, but his scores in verbal tests have been very high, and he doesn't fit into the Asperger's profile because of the social skills he does have. But most of his new issues are surrounding social skills with groups of peers. Very confusing for my husband and I, since the kid is extremely extroverted in most social situations.

Anyway, I plan to look into "The Nurtured Heart" book as a resource. Here in Colorado everyone is very big on the Love & Logic approach, which I like in theory, but with a child who is good at haggling over given choices, it doesn't always work!

I've also read this thread with great interest and a sigh of relief that I'm not the only one dealing with these issues. Sciencemama, I'd read your posts about selective mutism and saw some things that applied to our situation. DD's now closer to a "slow to warm up" kid than selective mutism but the meltdowns can be awful. Do you have any additional info on this part (bold added)?


Thanks for this information and the links you provided. I've read The Explosive Child and will look into Nurtured Heart too.

I too am very interested to hear that I am not the only one dealing with the children's issues and feeling like I can't cope. Last year I melted down almost as often as my kids, though I did it differently. I hate emotional confrontation and I had to do a lot with the school my children attended.

This year, I have a TSS for my older son, and a behavioral specialist looking at both. There are a lot of interventions that are neither NHA or EC that are helping my children. The EC helped me try to do what I was already doing better. But, my DS8 is getting sensory time this year at school. The special ed teacher grabs him for a 1/2 hour in the morning and she runs him through walking like an animal (or so he says), sometimes puts him in a body sock, all kinds of interesting wacky sensory things. He is doing great and he loves it.

My DS7 is with a very even-keeled teacher. I have noticed that his "ADHD" happens when he is very wound up. So, having a teacher who catches poor behavior immediately and does not let her own emotional behavior escalate as a result is working wonders. I know neither of the two great situations will last forever, so I will try to enjoy this year before I have to jump into the fray again.:)

I guess my point is that no matter how great the system, there are so many other little factors that really go into this. This community's support with some of these grey-borderline OE issues really help my sanity at times.

Okay...let me try to explain things this way.

It's taken me quite a long time to understand my child's intense behavior as it relates to the factors that play into it.

I think the biggest clue I ever got was from my daughter's pediatric neuropsychologist. I think she was extremely gifted and intuitive herself. After 5 pretty comprehensive sessions of testing for various developmental abilities, she sat us down and explained to us the neurobiology of what was going on in the development of the brain. Most psychologists don't go into the extra years of study to find out how what's going on at the level of the brain structures and their development and how that affects learning and behavior, so her information is a lot more detailed than I ever would have gotten from a regular pediatric psychologist.

This is what her report said

�SELECTIVE MUTISM� is on it under the diagnosis �neurodevelopmental delay with limbic mood dysregulation�. [for those that aren't aware the limbic system of the brain is the "emotional" center of the brain.]

This is how it is worded � that interrelates the SPD, the attention issues, and selective mutism:

Marked inattention characterized by overexcitation-overinhibition of sensory stimuli is evidenced resulting in heightened sensory sensitivity. This resulted in (among other things related to attention and auditory memory):

* heightened separation anxiety/generalized anxiety, which impeded social fluency. At other times, fluency of interaction was very age appropriate and fluent.

* SELECTIVE MUTISM was evidenced and highly related to heightened anxiety/startle.

All of this in the presence of INTELLECTUAL TALENT. She wanted it quite plain that her SM did no way interfere with her intelligence, only her ability to communicate what she knew.

Okay...that perhaps is a lot of psychobabble, right?

But as she explained it, and further research I did on the matter seems to confirm it, that there was a problem in the integration of normal infant reflexes, particularly those in the MORO reflex (which many of us have heard about as the startle reflex) and one called the Fear Paralysis Reflex (which many of us may not have heard about but basically amounts to the FIGHT, FLIGHT or FREEZE stress response). My selectively mute child's response to stress was essentially stuck on freeze. It was a maladaptive coping strategy.

In most people, reflexes like the rooting reflex, the tonic neck reflex, and the MORO reflex and the FPR reflex eventually "fade into the background" as the infant matures. For instance, if you stroke a newborn babies cheek, he will turn toward your finger and open his mouth - but if you stroke a toddler's cheek, they may turn toward you, or they might just brush your hand away or ignore you. They certainly wouldn't turn and open their mouths as if to nurse or expect a bottle.

Okay, so what happens if a child retains the startle reflex and her Fear Paralysis Reflex is stuck on FREEZE? You just might get a child who becomes selectively mute in certain social settings - wanting to interact with her classmates but reflexively shutting down her ability to speak and interact.

And even though you'd think a classroom setting isn't a big deal, think about it through the eyes of a child that is so "switched on" to the world around her (very sensitive to auditory and visual and vestibular sensations), the noise and chaos of being in a room with 19 other immature 3 year old was too much.

And of course, it takes a tremendous amount of energy to not speak, keep rigid, avoid eye contact and ignore someone who gets in her face, all the while thinking "everyone is watching me" and being self-conscious about everything. Even on the days when she wanted to talk, she was articulate enough to tell me when she was 5, "the words are there in my head, but they just wouldn't come out". She would come home completely exhausted from being on edge at school and meltdown because the stress just built up too much.

Because I had to know more, I spent time looking for information to back up what the neuropsych said.

So I found some resources

particularly this book by Sally Goddard Blythe

Reflexes, Learning And Behavior: A ...olving Learning & Behavior Problems

Sure enough, as part of her research paper, she wrote how retained primitive reflexes can directly "cause" selective mutism.

There is a whole host of problems related to neurodevelopmental delay of having these primitive reflexes not integrated. To see a list of them, you can look here

NeurodevelopmentalTherapy

What kind of problems?





So...the thing is...if you can help the child to reintegrate these things, the better able the child can help themselves.

But how?

Most psychologists tell the parents they need therapy, or medications or what not. I don't think those are bad, but they should only be a last resort.

What helps to reintegrate these things?

Movement and SPD therapies focusing on sensory calming activities.

Movement therapies include something a bit off the beaten path called feldenkrais - a very gentle therapy often used for patients who've had physical injuries.

But, I found (in our case) we didn't have to pay someone for the therapies. I asked what could take the place of feldenkrais (because even though there was someone available to do it, it was not feasible due to time and distance constraints), and I was told ballet and yoga. So I enrolled her in the nearby ballet studio, and bought a YogaKids 2 dvd set from Target to do at home.

Then we did lots of park time for all the climbing/balancing/swinging on tire swings and read books like Sensational Kids and The Out of Sync Child Has Fun for things to do at home on the cheap.

I also made a Kids Problem Solving Binder using picture stories I got from different places on the internet, coupled with books I got from the library to help her identify her strong feelings. On that link, I link to other places where I got great information about social stories with pictures, and also a great booklist for age appropriate books about emotions, from Vanderbilt University's The Center on the Social and Emotional Foundations for Early Learning (CSEFEL).

We went through the binder in between episodes of frustration (because of course no learning happens in the heat of the moment).

I can say, without a doubt, working on the physical end of things as well as emotion coaching (and frequent high protein snacks), while my daughter has the occasional outburst, it's signifcantly better.

Reducing her stress and frustration and overwhelming emotions by giving her physical outlets (which scared her as much as it scared me sometimes) and spending lots of time hugging and holding her while using her cognitive abilities to talk about her intense feelings really has made a huge difference.

It's not that she's never mad or frustrated, but she's much better able to articulate and help me work on a mutually agreeable solution than to totally flip out about it. Now, talking about what happens to her and validating her feelings goes a lot way. Her better behavior also helps me because my own sensitivities aren't triggered.


Whew...this was a lot. I hope it all makes sense. I'm going out of town this weekend and I may not get a chance to elaborate more.

Thanks for writing this and have a great trip. I'm going to go through the links you gave and revisit your blog posts. I look forward to learning more!

sciencemania-great post, i'm going away for the weekend also, but am hoping to bring my laptop and connect somehow so i can get my fix here!

Dear Friends,
I am new to this board and ran across the posts and am so excited to share with you all! I didn't read word for word the posts on this topic but here goes: I am a trainer with the Nurtured Heart Approach! That said, nothing else touches this. I used to do parent education and have read and used The Explosive Child, ...Your Spirited Child, etc. etc. If you are looking for someone close to you to support you with the NHA, go to www.difficultchild.com or www.nurturinggreatness.net and look under coaches/trainers. We are presented alphabetically and are located throughout the globe. Oh yes, Kazdin was one of the experts on the Primetime show on Wed. The ideas are positive focussed. The NHA is even more so--
Best wishes,
NHAYEAH!!

hey all
i wanted to give a quick update. There have been huge changes around my house. After pouring through both of these books (explosive child and nurtured hard approach) i basically just started "doing it all" and i now can't wait for them to get home from school so i can experience this new place we are in. I started the basics of Nurtured Heart (active noticing & calm, low-energy negative interaactions) about 10 days ago and started Collaborative Problem Solving from Explosive Child on Monday. As expected, my son has the issues that can be worked on with CPS and my daugter fits NCA. But they both get some overlap, definitely.. I defintiely do need guidance with some parts and so am not totally there yet but i wanted to let everyone know that it is possible to see change quickly. i avoided these types of books for so long,, i am mad at myself about that!!

irene

Irene - yippee!!!!
I'm so glad to hear that you found the right start for yourself, and that you are seeing some results.
Please forgive yourself for the past - it really is over! You probably saved yourself a lot of energy and sanity as most of what is in 'those types' of books really just doesn't apply - the important thing is that you have found some strength and wisdom that is making your parenting more effective and more fun. Good for you!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I ditto what Grinity said and it made me think of a Maya Angelou quote. I posted the long version on the quote thread but the short version is 'well, if I'd known better I'd have done better.' Glad to hear your report on NH. I'm in the library queue for Transforming the difficult child : the nurtured heart approach : shifting the intense child to new patterns of success and strengthening all children on the inside / Howard Glasser and Jennifer Easley.

Nice Quote Inky.
You may want to also get in line for 'All Children Flourishing: Igniting The Greatness of Our Children' just to see the evolution of the ideas. 'Igniting' is the most recent version of the Approach, and I can notice a huge growth.

Smiles,
Grinity

Thanks for the recommendation. Our library doesn't have a copy of Ignited but I'll see if I can get a copy through the interlibrary loan.

I just love interlibrary loan!

I'm new on here and read the discussion on the explosive child. I've just begun reading it and have not come to the part of WHAT to do yet, all I know is I'm exhausted from fighting my four year ols and now my 2 1/2 year old is picking up on his behavior. I don't feel like taking them anywhere right now and yet socialization is what they need! It was great to read your posts and know I'm not alone, which I have been feeling so much lately.

hi exhaustomom
i know those books sometimes take a while to get to the point. I would also highly recommend Nurtured Heart- i felt my daughter was not right for the Explosive Child but it fit my son (to summarize my earlier posts!)..The best thing I got from Explosive Child is making sure to start by empathizing with your child.. and a great thing from Nurtured Heart was doing a time out without having to move your child to a room or bench. And for recognizing that just because my kids are explosive, i'm not a bad parent!! Really helped.
irene

It's hard to take in new information while you are exhausted. I would recommend these steps before trying to apply anything from a book.
1) Defuse your frustration level. Step: Start a new thread and post exactly what is going on at your house.
2) Find a way to put your own 'oxygen mask' on first. You can tell us what you've tried and we'll give you ideas.
3) Start with ONE STEP. I don't have enough words to get a strong vibe here, but an idea did 'pop'into my head:

Get a big pad of paper and an easel. Put it in the middle of where most of the action takes place in your home. Label it Gratitude Pad. Just start running over there and writing down anything that anyone in your home does that you appreciate. Include yourself, your spouse, nature, your Higher Power - whatever. Allow the kids to use your paper. If someone isn't bleeding, and you see anything specific that you like and want more of - run to the board and sharpie it down! You don't have to say a word, or explain it or anything! Just open up your heart and let let any joy out into the open. Fan those flames!

So post more here, and then compliment yourself on that Gratitude Pad! (You can use opened up paper grocery bags, the back of on sale wrapping paper, anything big if money is tight, but I want you to have a keepsake as well, if possible!)

Love and More Love,
Grinity