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Joined: Sep 2007
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What do you mean "identified root," Dottie? I'm not familiar with that terminology.
I learn so much here!
Kriston
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Joined: Apr 2008
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Hmmm... I would say he's generally slow (meaning average for his age!) at the taking in. He needs time to digest things, to think them through. Hovever, he both reads and writes at about the same speed, so I'm not sure I'm reflecting him accurately given your question...  Writing is no problem for him. He likes to write, and often chooses to write books for fun. He is a deliberate kid, on both ends of the process. He is not hasty in any way, and time worries him. He does not like to feel rushed. It is a major stressor for him. Where I saw speed issues the most was in his (boring) homework sent home from school. He just isn't the sort of kid who is able to push through, get it done and get on with life. Nowadays, it's mostly problematic for timed math tests for math facts. But wait, that's production, isn't it? See, I don't know! :p This makes me think about the whole speed/accuracy balance. Could it be that when he is not fully engaged, his attention wavers but he does not sacrifice accuracy for speed? So while some kids (like my DS6) would show his inattention to boring homework by rushing through it and ending up with sloppy work and careless mistakes, yours doesn't. Part of it is my DS's inattention to the boring stuff, and part of it is his (Type A-ish, rushy) personality. So maybe because of your DS's personality (not a kid on New York time) your DS manifests the same issue (lack of full focus to the boring task) as slowness vs. carelessness. Of course we know all of this is just speculation, but if anything is going to nail him down with the info. you have, it's going to me your speculation and hunches as his mom  .
Last edited by Jool; 12/21/08 01:54 PM.
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Well, it makes good sense. Good term, if you coined it. So just to be sure I'm following you here: you're saying that DD11 is slower because of auditory processing issues, which tends to come out in verbal areas, while her strength is PRI, right? So she is a visual learner, then? Or am I taking it too far there? You know, just musing here...it's interesting to me that DS7 is really strong in language, especially foreign language. He can't get enough of it and he picks it up really fast. It's one of the few areas I'd say he is faster than average at something. He spells well and he writes easily. I figure all that's a pattern thing, right? (Especially since his verbal scores, while GT, were nowhere near his PRI.) This is all so interesting to me!
Kriston
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This makes me think about the whole speed/accuracy balance. Could it be that when he is not fully engaged, his attention wavers but he does not sacrifice accuracy for speed? So while some kids (like my DS6) would show his inattention to boring homework by rushing through it and ending up with sloppy work and careless mistakes. Part of it is my DS's inattention to the boring stuff, and part of it is his (Type A-ish, rushy) personality. So maybe because of your DS's personality (not a kid on New York time) your DS manifests the same issue (lack of full focus to the boring task) as slowness vs. carelessness. Of course we know all of this is just speculation, but if anything is going to nail him down with the info. you have, it's going to me your speculation and hunches as his mom . Interesting! I would agree that he does not sacrifice accuracy for speed. Yes, that all seems right. For example, he doesn't usually miss problems on his timed math tests, but he won't finish the page in time. I think you nailed it, Jool! (With no thanks to me and my muddled thinking on this!  )
Kriston
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LOL!
You know, DS7 has "huh" issues, too. I have to repeat everything at least twice. Not just most things, but everything. Hmmm...Now I'm chewing on that...
Our whole family seems to be visual learners--DH is visual-spatial, for sure. I'm visual-verbal (I need to see the words on the page to get them, but I like words more than pictures). DS4 seems to be the "artsy-fartsy" end of visual-spatial. He also needs everything repeated multiple times.
DS7 is more perplexing, as one IQ test said he's decidedly VS and the other said he's decidedly NOT VS. he's clearly visual, but I'm not sure he's VS.
Much more to think about...
Kriston
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You know, just musing here...it's interesting to me that DS7 is really strong in language, especially foreign language. He can't get enough of it and he picks it up really fast. It's one of the few areas I'd say he is faster than average at something. He spells well and he writes easily. I figure all that's a pattern thing, right? (Especially since his verbal scores, while GT, were nowhere near his PRI.) *Or* could learning quickly in foreign language be from doing better with novelty/challenge? The PSI tests are more repetitive and boring than the PRI tests. Someone who focuses their attention better with novelty and tires with sameness should do better on the PRI tests. I wouldn't connect the nonverbal > verbal with the strong foreign language. Language is definitely a pattern thing but a different pattern thing then, say, matrix reasoning, unless your talking about learning Chinese (new visual pattern) - where there theoretically could be some overlap.
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I agree. At the very least he doesn't have the kind of severity of issue that your DD has, for sure. But her situation makes me think...which is handy! Some of his spelling aptitude is the visual acuity, I'm sure. If he sees something, he does tend to "get" it. So if he's read a word, he knows how to spell it. He also doesn't mishear things as you're describing your DD doing. It's just that when he hears it, he doesn't get it at all. It washes over him and makes no inroads whatsoever. And it doesn't seem to be hyperfocus, BTW. Even when he's looking at me and paying attention, auditory commands are hard for him. On his ITBS, his lowest score by far was the listening section. And he was really trying!
Kriston
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Gosh, a lot of this sounds soooo familiar. The 'huh?' problem, the not sacrificing accuracy for speed, the very sloooow work on boring worksheets, super speed with learning spelling words (if he's seen it, he knows it, and he's been getting some pretty tough words lately...Qualifying for gt program under language arts even though I *always* thought of him as a puzzle-mathy guy. Hm. Makes me wonder if Kriston or Dottie or others have a recommendation on what sort of testing to look at having conducted for ds8 - I have been wondering about going for some full-on testing since ds is getting on in years . Seriously though, I just read over 8 the tests get less accurate. (He turns 9 in the summer.) I guess the main reason for testing would be to help figure out the slow performance on timed tests thing, and to understand what is up with the patterny-puzzly side of him. Whether he will be ok with a regular curriculum or if he really needs something more...
Last edited by chris1234; 12/21/08 02:50 PM.
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The frustrating thing in school for my "speedy" DS is the insistence that he not go too far ahead for fear of having gaps in learning. He did miss out on a whole year's worth of facts. But the gaps just kind of filled in themselves without him really having to put any effort in.
Last edited by Jool; 12/21/08 03:16 PM.
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Gosh, a lot of this sounds soooo familiar. The 'huh?' problem, the not sacrificing accuracy for speed, the very sloooow work on boring worksheets, super speed with learning spelling words (if he's seen it, he knows it, and he's been getting some pretty tough words lately...Qualifying for gt program under language arts even though I *always* thought of him as a puzzle-mathy guy. Hm. Makes me wonder if Kriston or Dottie or others have a recommendation on what sort of testing to look at having conducted for ds8 - I have been wondering about going for some full-on testing since ds is getting on in years . Seriously though, I just read over 8 the tests get less accurate. (He turns 9 in the summer.) I guess the main reason for testing would be to help figure out the slow performance on timed tests thing, and to understand what is up with the patterny-puzzly side of him. Whether he will be ok with a regular curriculum or if he really needs something more... So he's not been tested at all? Just trying to remember where you're at in the process... Dottie and I formulated a vague theory some months ago that a high PRI may show itself in a puzzle-and-verbal way when the child is young, but may show itself as a facility for higher math as they get older. Pattern recognition is pretty helpful in calculus! I have no idea if our theory is full of it yet, but it looks like it makes sense based on my anecdotal evidence. <shrug> Take it for what you paid for it! As for testing, if you can use the help, get it. Nothing to lose but, time, money, and sanity!  If you think you have a kid like mine, I'd probably advise going for the WISC, not the SB-5. So far both my DS7 and JBDad's son--whom he describes in similar terms--had lower-than-expected results on the SB-5. I'm not sure why. I don't know if the SB-5 is better for a slightly older kid or not, though. That could be a consideration that I'm not considering...
Kriston
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