Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional 68 points between PSI and GAI! Disability?

Another thought - The PSI could be the same for a kid who is a quick learner but a slow doer as another kid who is the opposite. A kid might perceive things quickly without needing repetition but might be slow in their performance because of another cognitive issue - the PSI really wouldn't tell you that. (I know, I know... I'm preaching to the choir when I say just knowing your kid says more than the index score...

I heard in a webinar type thing with a GT testing expert that if PRI was high and PSI was low, PSI wasn't really low for the kid, just on the test. . . . or something else of interest was going on. His theory was that PRI requires speed and "you can't fake good" so a high PRI should end any concerns about low PSI. I have no idea if that's true or not . . . . . does anyone else?

Agreed that knowing a kid is worth more than an index score.

Hmmm... I've never heard that before. My DS7's PRI was near the ceiling, but his PSI is average.

So you really have my attention, G3!

Any idea what the "something else of interest" might be?

One major difference between the subtests that go into the PRI/PSI is that the PSI subtests are timed and the PRI ones aren't. They both use visual perceptual skills. So my guess is that what this webinar person was saying is that if you have high PRI, a low PSI score would not be due to a visual perceptual issue. There would be some other reason for the slowness. In reality, though, you could have a child with, say, a visual processing problem who performs poorly on the PSI because of the nature of the stimuli used in the tests. Someone with low acuity, for example, would be more likely to make errors on Coding and Cancellation tests (from PSI) than the Block Design and Picture Completion tests(PRI) because in the first 2 tests the stimuli are smaller and more bunched up together. Although PSI tests are timed, you could be fast but still get a low score for making errors. The final score does not distinguish between errors and time. Also, even when it's pretty obvious by looking back at their performance that there is a speed (not perceptual) issue, (e.g., no errors on PSI tests) you still haven't answered the question of why they were slow. Do they have slow input? Slow output? Both? Something else causing their slowness?

I defer to other who know more about how this *really* works, but the notes I took said this: in some PRI subtests, you get bonus points for speed. If PSI is slow, you shouldn't be able to do block design well. If PRI is high and PSI low, you need to worry about why the kid couldn't do the tasks on the PSI because the kid was fast in some things and it wasn't just about speed. He said good PRI scores rule out real speed issues and visual deficits.

But really . . . . . I'm in over my head and don't know anymore than that.

Huh. Interesting.

I guess that just flies in the face of what I see with my own child, G3. He is a pattern...expert? genius? pro? I dunno, but some word like that. Just really, really able to make sense of data in amazing ways. But he is slow. Not just on the test, but in real life.

Now, it is possible that the patterns in the PRI were just so obvious to him that there was no need for him to take any time. He just saw everything immediately. That wouldn't surprise me a bit, actually!

He's not usually a perfectionist either, so I wouldn't think that sort of issue would have been problem for him, as it surely is for some kids with odd PSI scores.

Wait...now that I'm re-reading both the past two posts together, I'm seeing something confusing:





If speed is NOT a factor in PRI, then everything makes sense. If it is, then our test results make less sense to me.

Well, I can't claim to be sure of how this *really* works any more than anyone else who has read about IQ testing, but I'll still give my opinion...




I'm still not convinced. What about the kid with fine motor slowness who struggles with writing quickly with a pencil? He may whip through block design but struggle with coding. Only the PSI tests would tap into speed with using a pencil. Again with the visual acuity thing - I could do block design with my glasses off but wouldn't be able to do Symbol Search. My good PRI would not tap into the fact that I need my glasses.

My bad. G3 is right - you do get bonus points for speed on some of the PRI tests. What I should have said is that the scores on PSI subtests are *more* dependent on speed than the PRI tests are. The PRI tests are not as sensitive to slowness. Anyhow, I still stand by my previous comment -- I'm still not convinced about the generalization this webinar person is making.

So thinking about your DS Kriston, would you say that he takes in information quickly, but is slow at producing? Does he read quickly, but is slow at writing about what he reads?

Hmmm... I would say he's generally slow (meaning average for his age!) at the taking in. He needs time to digest things, to think them through.

Hovever, he both reads and writes at about the same speed, so I'm not sure I'm reflecting him accurately given your question... Writing is no problem for him. He likes to write, and often chooses to write books for fun.

He is a deliberate kid, on both ends of the process. He is not hasty in any way, and time worries him. He does not like to feel rushed. It is a major stressor for him.

Where I saw speed issues the most was in his (boring) homework sent home from school. He just isn't the sort of kid who is able to push through, get it done and get on with life. Nowadays, it's mostly problematic for timed math tests for math facts. But wait, that's production, isn't it?

See, I don't know! :p