Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Reading , percentiles (rambling)

Hi, I was afraid I might be in danger of hijacking others' threads, so thought I'd better start a new one.

DS6 still isn't reading (really, I mean). He's known letters/sounds for several years and I keep thinking it's immanent, but it doesn't happen. I posted a while back full of determination re what I flippantly called hothousing. It went nowhere at all - he'd pointedly stare at the wall rather than look at a word on a page. At the same time, the school sent him up a year for reading, and he's been quite happy to show off (quietly) at home and to his teacher about how he's the best, which he probably is - he reads out loud pretty well. What a wonderful arrangement - getting to feel so superior without having to put in any effort.

I know (I think?) he could do better if he tried. He hates being asked to sound out words, but can do it if I take the right approach - if I'm reading to both boys and ask who can "figure out" the word first he's onto it straight away. So important to beat your four-year-old brother.

So I think he could, but I'm just not sure - reading Harry Potter at five seems almost to be a prerequisite for claiming GT. And particularly when I'm angsting over school changes, I wonder if we're getting above ourselves pitching for a GT school. Not that I don't think he is, but perhaps not really all that much?

Which relates to my other ongoing wonderings about percentiles. Hoagies advises a lower level for HG on WPPSI than I generally see - is this right? Does it mean that the percentiles we were given after the test turned out to be wrong after further investigation? And what about those suggestions you see about there being more children than expected at the extreme high end? Does this mean 1:500 is really 1:3000, or that the bell curve concept it fundamentally flawed? I'd like to understand where my children fall in the scheme of things, and am not doing very well at it, particularly without the aforementioned Harry Potter reading.

Does anyone have similar experiences? Or profound wisdom re LOG? (Ruf's levels really don't work for us - we're all over the place) Or perhaps just a virtual shoe to throw at my head. I'm sure I should have more of a grip on this by now.

This paragraph and the humor expressed here tells me that you probably don't need the aforementioned shoe. LOL!

At the risk of sounding like a broken record...it's not a vision issue is it? I won't go on and on about this (again) since I just did in another thread, but it is something I'd consider in cases where things don't make sense. (www.covd.org)

Kids who seem sometimes HG+ and sometimes not really GT at all could merely be asynchronous, for sure, but they might also have a 2E issue or some developmental delay that is confusing the issue. If your mom gut is unsettled, then I think it might be worth a check.

You also might consider achievement testing. This was the real eye-opener for us, more so than IQ testing (thought that helped in other ways).

For those of us who like our ducks in a row, this is all very hard, isn't it? I definitely sympathize!

Hi Kriston - the thread with your comments re DO was one that I was trying not to hijack. I probably should have his vision checked, just to set my mind at rest, but I tend to think our lack of progress is either behavioural or that perhaps he's just not all that GT. I'm increasingly thinking about achievement testing too as I find out more about what our state curriculum has in store and compare with what he can already do.

Thanks for the reciprocal rambling Gratified, and glad to know we're not completely alone re HP. I should have been a little clearer - I wasn't trying to get him reading for it's own sake, tempting though that may be. We've had some behavioural problems this year, often quite bad, and reluctance to take on anything requiring effort has seemed to be tied up in this. So I thought instituting a policy of effort at home, since it wasn't going to happen at school, might help. It still looks to be a problem - his teacher advised of warning bells going off for her recently after someone else finished one of the new jigsaw puzzles before he did. He loves puzzles but hasn't been near them since. Not out of character these days unfortunately.

I've been reading The Optimistic Child and can really see some thoughts for us to take on board, particularly when I think of my own childhood. I absolutely believe that learning to face challenges is important, but would like a reasonable degree of certainty as to what level of challenge we should be pitching at the boys.

I used to think the primary school years would be the easiest. I was prepared for sleep deprivation in infancy, tantrums in toddlerhood and teenage angst, but really thought the in-between years would be a cake-walk. Pf.

The not wanting to look at the page is the same sort of problem we were having, FYI. It's what made me think it might be vision-related.

Highly verbal kids tend to like to look at words. DS4's choosing to stare at a wall rather than a book about a subject of interest to him was a big ol' neon sign to me that he wasn't comfortable with the seeing. YMMV, certainly, but that really jumps out at me about your DS's refusal to cooperate.

I think about a kid for whom the words seem to move around on the page or whose eyes can't easily track along a row of words. Of course they refuse to do it! How uncomfortable!

Again, not saying this is what's up, but what you've said so far doesn't rule it out for me. The perfectionism actually makes it seem more likely to me. Kids who don't want to make mistakes are unlikely to enjoy trying to follow the dancing words across the page. It would make them feel frustrated, tired and stupid. No wonder they avoid reading! It seems like it would explain a lot about your son's situation.

My turn to ramble mostly aimlessly...

The moral of the story is that I would recommend at least looking into it. It's simple enough to rule out, you know?

I'm looking for nearby DOs this very afternoon...(although I don't rule out that I have the most stubborn children in the southern hemisphere).

Wise advice to be had here, as always.

As for the perfectionism...Have you considered assigning him to make mistakes? A psych affiliated with SENG spoke to our GT parent group, and he recommended having the teacher assign a perfectionist child to get the lowest grade possible. The goal was to get an F! (As a slowly reforming perfectionist, I found myself VERY uncomfortable with this notion, even as an adult, which told me that it's probably a BRILLIANT idea! It confronts the issue head-on.)

Most perfectionist GT kids can't get below an average score, no matter how hard they try, and the exercise helps them to see that they don't have to make themselves crazy to be perfect.

Your child may be too young for this full-on experiment, but maybe a modified version?

Just another thought...

Lol - I started getting twitchy just reading that which, as you say, probably indicates that it's a good idea. We've just gone to summer holidays for six weeks, but I'll bear it in mind for next year.

Still twitching...

Isn't it funny? I mean, I get REALLY uncomfortable just thinking about it! Twitchy is the right word. I feel downright anxious! And isn't that ridiculous?

It hits us where it hurts, doesn't it? I mean, if the assignment is to fail, then it shouldn't make us so uncomfortable to think about failing, should it?

We are an odd bunch!

Hi BKD,
Good for you for 'taking the bull by the horns' and insiting on some effort at home. Without your efforts, you would have no idea of the severity of your son's 'underachievement/perfectionism.' You would just have a child in the top reading group who is 'allergic to effort.' Our worst fear!

I'm always going on and on about taking the attitude that we parents insist that our children afterschool and make an effort. I realized, from reading your post, that this is meant as a preventive and a diagnositic for 'underachievement/perfectionism' - it's too late for the preventive for your DS6! ((Although DS4 is in great shape, no?))

Of course get the vision checked, and not just by a 'regular optomitirist' but if that isn't it, you have to face that Afterschooling isn't going to be enough, you are in the position of trying to reverse 2 or more years of damage from being unnacomidated at school. 2 years doesn't sound like much, but count up the hours as a % of time on the planet!

You must, must, must change his daily school environment, ASAP. If that is impossible, then continue Afterschooling but do lots of talking with DS6 about what HE is interested in, and be an enthusiastic 'co-learner' or audience. You will probably want to pick something 'non-academic' like martial arts or chess or video blogging to encourage and pray that the 'love of learning bug' bites him sometime on his way to college.

Meanwhile, you have DS4 as your greatest ally. Anything you want to get out of DS6, you must pretend to be teaching DS4. But I would save that for truly 'below grade level' performance.

DS6 is in a totally different stage of this disease. Now that you see what you've got, you are in the business of 'fixing' is daily school situation, and put on your coquette hat and get into 'selling' the 'joy of learning.'

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Excersize, fresh air and sunshine are great at preventing colds, but when you have the flu, go got to bed and rest. See?