Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Achievement - Ability Discrepancy

Hi Everyone

You have all been so helpful to me and I hope you don't mind me asking a few more queries. I was wondering if anyone has been in this position or could shed light on the following now we have achievement test as well.

My DS IQ test results on WISC -

Verbal - 132
Perceptual 137
Working Memory 97
Processing Speed 108.

Thank you Dottie for calculating/estimating GAI as 144 (if I've recollected correctly).
Fast forward to his achievement test which was a combination of the Neale Analysis and WIAT. Whilst cannot give you exact scores (as only shown verbally, report not issued). Everything (even Maths what i perceived to be a great strenght of my son's) fell in the average range. Apparently, spelling was the worst with most sub-scores around 88, 91, 93 etc.... Reading and writing did not fare much better and maths just spot on around 100 average. To be honest, this reflects the 'nose-dive' in his grades (grade 3) this year. He has always avoided reading and writing tasks - the psych said that it was painful to watch his writing and she did not even get him to write the last paragraph as he was so distressed at the thought. Also in the maths he got fairly simple addition and subtraction wrong - stuff he used to do really well at in grade one and 2 - it looked almost careless, impulsive and like he didn't check his work. With one "8 X timetable" apparently he simply said 'too hard' I'll just guess. I know at school he does like to get "tests over and one with as quickly as possible" and hates writing as it takes way too long.

Has anyone any ideas - we probably will go further with a neuropsych (as suggested by this forum previously) but I wondered if anyone had any thoughts from experience? The word "dyslexic" was mentioned. The psych seemed very concerned by the results and said that he needs significant help and how frustrated he must be.

Perhaps it is relevant (not sure) his younger sister has been found to be HG+ and at 4.5 reads and comprehends around the 8 year level. He gets very concerned she will "catch up with him" nad perhaps supersede him in what he sees as his good areas (ie. maths).

From a now VERY confused mother. ANy input (any at all) gratefully appreciated!

Tiz

Hi Dottie

Yes, we will get a written report - I guess I am jumping the gun as a bit of panic is taking over. You are right they are standard scores (ie. 32nd percentile) rather than percentiles.
I should also mention that this child was farsighted and has glasses - he also scored very high (greater than 12 year old) in visual processing - so i guess that rules any visual out.

thanks again for your input Dottie!
Tiz

Yes, I agree Dottie it seems that doing the testing has really opened up more questions. Perhaps i should come back when I have the full report and see what she ends up saying

Thanks so much for your support and input so far. I will keep my mind open on the 'dyslexia' issue. Tiz

Yes, very wise words - the label is not as important as the solution.

Oh Tiz,
((pat,pat))
I know how painful this must be.

It does remind me of I time I put my foot in my mouth, I was complaining to a neighbor about how sad it is to see my who was so bright, strugging with these problems.

She said it beats having these problems without the advantage of being so bright. And I think she was talking about her own son. ((UG - how could I have been so thoughtless?))

But I do still secretly feel that there is a special sadness of seeing a really really bright kid who can't function academically. I wonder how much of what you are seeing is the 'bottleneck' of working memory + processing speed?

Grinity

Thanks Grinity

Yes, it is true that at least these children can use their intelligence to compensate better than perhaps otherwise.

I agree it is a little sad - when you see so much potential but there is difficulty accessing it.

I read somewhere that this sort of thing can be likened to a farrari caught in a traffic jam. Increasingly I am thinking that the huge disparity between working memory/ processing on one hand and verbal/performance on the other is perhaps the issue here (particularly WM).

cheers
Tiz

Have you read Sylvia Rimm's 'Why Smart Kids get Poor Grades?'

I think you'll see a lot of your son there, especially as little sister starts 'gunning' for him.

Can your son type well? Is he allowed to keyboard his writing assignments? My son's writing was terrible until age 9, when the touchtyping finally came in. I gently started bribing him at age 7, off and on, to learn correct typing finger position.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Is Homeschooling, partial homeschooling, or private schooling "one the menu?"

I used to think I couldn't afford afterschool tutoring. Then I thought I couldn't afford private school. Then my son started being more and more miserable, and suddenly those things didn't look as expensive as they did before.

Luckily we only had to pay for two years of private school, and this year he is happily back in the public school system, a mostly totally different kid.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

We have a 30- to 40-point spread between DS7's PRI (which is his DYS-level score) and his PSI and WMI, and I see the bottlenecks quite plainly.

After a dismal start to 1st grade, we pulled him out for homeschooling. We started the year last year doing a lot of mental math, and he was miserable! It took him so long to think through the problem (because he's not any faster than your average kid his age) that he would forget what he was supposed to be doing (because he's got a memory not much better than your average kid his age), and so he'd mess up the problem. I thought he was dawdling and got angry. It was annoying to me and frustrating to him. Lots of tears...

Even before that, he was always extremely slow on the "easy" work he had been getting at school. It made it much harder to work with the (already GT-resistant) 1st grade teacher on differentiation. She just didn't see why he needed it, since he couldn't finish the work he was given...*sigh*

After the WISC results came back, we did much less mental math, choosing instead to write down problems and work so he could see it. We still do some mental math to strengthen his relative weakness in those areas, but never enough to get really frustrating to either of us. Math time is a lot more fun now!

I really do feel like the bottleneck acts with him as a sort of learning disability. Not literally--he's not IEP material or anything--but it definitely affects the way he learns and the way material must be presented to him. I always say that he's deep but not fast.

Here's a practical example of his bottleneck: though he understood the concept of multiplication and could multiply long numbers last year if you gave him enough time (LOTS of time!!!), he's no better at memorization than an average 7yo, so I'm not pushing hard on the times tables. In terms of conceptual understanding, he's like a much older child. So we're doing a lot of visual math that doesn't require much multiplication--geometry has been the biggest hit!--and we do just a sprinkling of multiplication work every day to teach it gradually, over time. Dice games have been good for that. Also, we worked on perimeter with pattern blocks, and he figured out that he could count the units used on one side and multiply by 6 to find the perimeter of a figure he built. He kept adding to it and refiguring the perimeter, so it was a pretty good day's work on the 6s!

So this is a long tale told in the hopes that it might register--or not--with what you're seeing with your child, Tizz. Maybe seeing someone else's experience with a bottleneck can tell you if this is what's happening with your child or not?

I hope so!

Thanks Grinity

I have heard of it but now you have given me a reason to get a hold of a copy!

Thanksfor the tips on typing too.