Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 117 guests, and 18 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    ddregpharmask, Emerson Wong, Markas, HarryKevin91, Harry Kevin
    11,431 Registered Users
    May
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4
    5 6 7 8 9 10 11
    12 13 14 15 16 17 18
    19 20 21 22 23 24 25
    26 27 28 29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    #250537 10/17/23 09:38 AM
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    M
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    M
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    My son is gifted and has a diagnosis of written expression disorder. He also has deficits in working memory and writing fluency.

    We recently provided the psychologists report to the school and asked that he be evaluated for an IEP, and if he didnít qualify for an IEP to put a 504 in place.

    The school did not think he qualifies for an IEP.

    They did give him a 504 plan. The boxes they checked for the 504 were for concentration and ADHD. He was evaluated for ADHD over the summer at a private psychologist and did not meet the criteria for diagnosis. The school has the report.

    We set him up with private therapy from a Speech Language Pathologist with special interest in 2e kids. So far this has been going well. He works with them on organizing his thoughts for writing and gets support on writing homework.

    I have since learned that my insurance will only cover 20 SLP visits per year. I feel like heíd benefit from having SLP support all school year - closer to 45 visits.

    Here are my questions for the community:

    1. Do you know of any funding we can apply for to help us cover the cost of SLP? Itís going to cost us about $2000/yr. He would definitely qualify for 2e grants if such a thing exists.

    2. Have any of you had your child qualify for a 504 based on a diagnosis they donít have? It feels weird to me, but it does put in some important accommodations for him: extra time on tests and assignments, graphic organizers, use of computer to complete assignments, etc. Iíve shared this with a few contacts and they said they think they didnít write in his true disability diagnosis b/c the school didnít identify it through the IEP process.

    Iím looking for input and different perspectives Ö. Thank you!

    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 478
    S
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    S
    Joined: May 2015
    Posts: 478
    What was the basis of ineligibility for an IEP? When you brought the assessments to the school, what did they do? Did they waive their own assessment and accept the info given? Did they choose to do their own assessment? I'm asking these questions because I believe it will help the next folks that come along to provide answers.

    But I will stab at the second question a little. My child's 504 a long time ago was for anxiety, yet he had dysgraphia and disorder of written expression. The school could not recognize any "dys" and the DWE was not "impacting education". So he got a 504 for typing under anxiety. Just before the end of high school, our state mandated corrections and one of those was that the disability had to fit the accommodations. I don't know if your state maybe is still where my state was, but senior year, my child got to have dysgraphia as his disability. And the district had mandatory training on recognizing the "dys"-- dysgraphia, dyslexia, dyscalculia (as well as some other mandated corrections)

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,053
    Likes: 1
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,053
    Likes: 1
    Without knowing exactly what data the district had to work with, it's difficult to speculate too specifically, but I can add that ADHD is one of the disability categories (under health, typically) that does not require a diagnosis for a 504. OCR has established that you just need some of the relevant symptoms (e.g., inattention, impulsivity, organizational challenges). This makes it a convenient avenue that some districts have latched onto for qualifying students when the documentation for their putative "real" disabilities isn't available.

    As to the IEP, the flowchart for eligibility is this:
    1. is there a federally-recognized disability? If no, the process ends with a finding of no eligibility. If yes, the process continues.
    2. Is the student making effective progress? If yes, the IEP process ends with a finding of no eligiblity, but may be referred to the 504 process. If no, the process continues.
    3. Is the lack of effective progress a result of the disability? If no, the IEP process ends, but may be referred to the 504 process. If yes, the process continues.
    4. Does the student require specialized instruction (skill remediation, not just accommodations) to make effective progress? If no, the IEP process ends, but may be referred to the 504 process. If yes, the student is eligible for special education, and an IEP is developed.

    As you can see, there are several points at which a finding of no eligibility could be made, some of which have different standards in different states. For example, the question (#2) of effective progress is defined as grade-level achievement in some states. (Not fabulous for 2e learners.) Unfortunately, if you're in one of those states, there's not a lot you can do about it. Another common effective progress obstacle is that some districts mistakenly will not consider social, emotional or executive function development in the discussion of effective progress, which is a misreading of the federal regs.

    It's also worth reflecting on what the nature of the neeeded supports really would be. If there is not a teachable skill to remediate (#4), then the team cannot develop goals for the IEP. In some cases, the appropriate document is actually a more robustly-constructed 504 (which, btw, can include related services, such as speech/language therapy, counseling, ot, or pt). If there is a specific remediable skill needed, then clear articulation of that skill should guide the development of the IEP goals, (objectives, if you're in a state that uses these,) and service delivery.

    Given that your district qualified him for a 504 based on concentration and is giving him accommodations which are essentially executive function scaffolds, one might ask what evaluative data they had in the IEP eligibility process to identify the presence or absence of deficiencies in executive function skills, and, if adequate measures were included, and EF needs were identified, why they did not determine that there was a need for specialized instruction in EF (which, btw, is what the private SLP is doing by working on organizing his thoughts for written expression). There should not be a question about #1, since they wrote a 504, which requires a disability. So it's somewhere in #2-4 that they made the no finding. Unless you're in one of the effective progress=grade-level achievement states, I would guess that the question hinges on specialized instruction, and what skill would be remediated. (One might propose that the skill is EF.)


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    spaghetti #250541 10/18/23 05:29 AM
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    M
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    M
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    What was the basis of ineligibility for an IEP?

    Officially the reasons are:
    Child does not meet the criteria for having a disability based on the data provided in the document. And the child does not demonstrate an educational need that requires specially designed instruction.

    My take: They consider the written expression problems as a weakness rather than a disorder. He has good grades in school. The school does not use ABC grades. He gets mostly fours which means that he is demonstrating above grade level understanding.

    We didnít seek out assessment because his grades were bad. We sought out the assessment because his anxiety was really high related to writing and we were open to whatever they would find: ADHD, writing disability, executive functioning issues, etc. He hates writing and he is aware that his writing speed is slower than peers.

    Whenís you brought the assessments to the school, what did they do?

    I had brought my Concerns about potential disability to the school last year. They put in place an unsuccessful intervention that was targeting task initiation. They wanted to do a behavior assessment. I told them I didnít want the behavior assessment because I thought it was too narrow and wasnít considering the possibility of a 2e diagnosis. I sought out a psychologist who specializes in gifted/2e for assessment. So when I brought the report to the school, it was an attachment to a formalized request for a 504 (as recommended by the psychologist). The school psychologist encouraged me to try for the IEP and I said Ok, as long as we also had a 504 option if the IEP didnít come through.

    Did they waive their own assessment and accept the info given?
    They told me that they needed to do their own assessment. But, that they wouldnít try to duplicate the testing (some of the tests canít be repeated in certain time periods per the rules of the test)

    Did they choose to do their own assessment?
    Yes. I did have some input into what kind of testing they would do. They did writing assessments occupational therapy physical therapy. They didnít do speech language pathology. I did ask about this, but they didnít do it. Basically, common knowledge is that SLPs focus on speech. But they also focus on language disorder, which is what he is struggling with.

    Thanks for the info on your son and how his 504 worked. I guess I donít know enough of the intricacies of our state law. Maybe I need to reach back out to our state PTI office for their take. From a disability rights standpoint, I feel like people should be able to have their disability recognized accurately.

    aeh #250542 10/18/23 06:07 AM
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    M
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    M
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    Thanks for your response.

    To be honest, I didnít expect him to get an IEP. Neither did the psychologist. What I donít like is mainly the mis label on the 504. I would be more comfortable if any of his actual diagnoses were the reason for the 504. I just donít understand why they wouldnít write an actual diagnosis as the reason for the 504 and replace it with some thing that he doesnít have a diagnosis of.

    I understand that his grades are high, and heís performing at grade level or better, and that may disqualify him from an IEP. Thatís why I didnít expect him to get an IEP.

    Do I think he has actionable goals to work toward? Absolutely. Heís working with the private Speech Language Pathologist and they have established goals. He is working on understanding the writing process. And applying the writing process. And demonstrating that he can write all different kinds of compound sentences.

    We have a comprehensive psych evaluation from a licensed psychologist that specializes in gifted and 2E. I donít really know what else I could provide that would provide more proof of a disability. I even have additional assessments from the private speech language pathologist that also confirm poor performance in written expression.

    I sought out the support from the speech language pathologist for him. I did this because I didnít expect the school to provide that targeted support. I am willing to work with him at home and support his writing, but his needs really seem to require the knowledge of an expert. He often resists and fights doing any kind of writing. Heís more willing to show his emotion and frustration with me, than with a professional like a teacher or therapist. He has had a lot of resistance over homework that requires writing, having this therapy weekly, provides support for homework. Because of the giftedness, and the very specific holes in his written expression, itís really helpful to have someone who knows how to target those skills.

    spaghetti #250543 10/18/23 02:52 PM
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    M
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    M
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    Have you found any good resources for parents regarding disorder of written expression? I really expected to find a book on it, there are tons of books on other learning disorders, why not DWE?

    Most interventions for dysgraphia donít apply b/c theyíre more about motor skills and my son struggles more with the cognitive piece of writing. Iíve found a little bit about the connection b/t written expression and working memory.

    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,250
    Likes: 4
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,250
    Likes: 4
    Originally Posted by millersb02
    ...any good resources for parents regarding disorder of written expression? I really expected to find a book on it, there are tons of books on other learning disorders, why not DWE?
    This is not a book, but the website https://www.understood.org/ shows 44 search results for "written expression disorder,"
    including a downloadable fact sheet, https://www.understood.org/articles/written-expression-disorder-fact-sheet
    and a guide, https://www.understood.org/en/articles/what-is-written-expression-disorder.

    indigo #250550 10/24/23 09:28 AM
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    M
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    M
    Joined: Apr 2019
    Posts: 39
    Thank you!

    I've been using understood.org. First, I used it to understand that there can be problems with writing that are cognitive and not motor related. Now, I am using links to this site to help inform his teacher about what DWE is and how it's different than dysgraphia. I just wish there was more in depth info out there.


    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    2e & long MAP testing
    by aeh - 05/16/24 04:30 PM
    psat questions and some griping :)
    by aeh - 05/16/24 04:21 PM
    Employers less likely to hire from IVYs
    by mithawk - 05/13/24 06:50 PM
    For those interested in science...
    by indigo - 05/11/24 05:00 PM
    Beyond IQ: The consequences of ignoring talent
    by Eagle Mum - 05/03/24 07:21 PM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5