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    Joined: May 2007
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    How about 7th gr. science/ 4th gr. math
    then the next year 8th gr. science/ 6th gr. math
    then 9th gr. science/8th gr. math
    then 10th gr. science/10th gr. math

    That way he's only skipping in one subject at a time.

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    Maybe you can get the math acceleration out of the science acceleration? It's a pretty strong selling point, I think! "He'll need X if he's going to do Y next year" is pretty persuasive...

    Yes, I think you should talk to the school again. Fer sher!


    Kriston
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    ebeth Offline OP
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    Cathy A: I look at the number of grade skips that you propose for math, and it makes me realize just how far behind in math he would be compared to science. DS would have to go through three sets of double grade skips in order to equalize the math and science grades. Oh boy! That means being with three different groups of friends each year... As soon as he made a new set of friends in a grade he would jump two grades above them the next year. I realize it would only be for math and not for a whole grade... but it still seems hard on a kid that struggles to make friends anyway?

    I have a question. Everyone said that schools seem to take Achievement test scores more seriously than IQ scores. Now, after having WISC-IV scores for six months and WJ III Math scores for less than a day, it doesn't seem like the schools are really interested in the math achievement scores. DS had the magic 145 or beyond for the scaled scores in three out of the four of the math subtest (with only the pesky math fluency below it) and grade eq. that were 3+ to 6+ higher than he currently is placed. So what do I do with this data? How do you approach the school if they are focusing on the math fluency data, which seems to me to be the Processing Speed equivalent of the WISC-IV?

    Should I focus on the scaled scores that DYS wants and look like IQ scores? The school doesn't really seem to understand these. The grade equivalents seem kind of arbitrary, and don't necessarily track with the scaled score. DS's highest scaled score was in Math Calculation, which had a GE of 4 grade levels above his current grade, while the Applied math scaled score was 17 pt lower but had a GE of 6 grade levels above current grade. It really makes no sense to me!

    Any idea what are the schools looking for in order to get math acceleration? (I know, that is probably the million dollar question around here!)


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    Hmmm... I see what you mean about multiple skips being a social issue.

    I wish I knew what to tell you about how to use the data to convince the school. What if he restests on the math fluency at the end of the year? Maybe he'll be sufficiently fluent then to satisfy them.

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    Cathy A: I look at the number of grade skips that you propose for math, and it makes me realize just how far behind in math he would be compared to science. DS would have to go through three sets of double grade skips in order to equalize the math and science grades. Oh boy! That means being with three different groups of friends each year... As soon as he made a new set of friends in a grade he would jump two grades above them the next year. I realize it would only be for math and not for a whole grade... but it still seems hard on a kid that struggles to make friends anyway?

    I'm jumping in late here, but from what I've read his math knowledge is already on par with science, right? He'll be making friends, or at least acquaintances in his science right now. If they don't go for acceleration in math right now, I'd ask for the whole jump in math for next year. That'd get him even in science & math next year, he'll know kids in math from his science classes. And let the school know if they don't accelerate him in math this year that you will expect it next year and ask for differentiation in his math now to prepare him for the skip next year.

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    Dottie has probably already posted this lol but I've read the WJIII shouldn't be used for grade placement. There aren't enough questions per grade level to make that decision. You would then go to out of level achievement tests, SCAT or the STEP testing.

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    I'm with CFK. I'm just not convinced that this skip does him any real good in the short term, though maybe it sets him up better for 4 or 5 years down the road. (But that's just a maybe--without same-level math acceleration, I'm it's far from a given...) If the multiple math skips aren't a good solution, then it doesn't seem like a very helpful skip for your DS, ebeth.

    At the same time, it seems like it carries a pretty high risk.

    Anytime I see that combo of high risk/low immediate reward, I get nervous.

    I think I'd favor independent study over this particular solution, too. It seems more appropriate to the child right now.

    But I freely admit that I'm no expert...



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    ebeth Offline OP
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    We had another round of discussions with the school this morning. They seem to have come to the same decision: the math skills need to be advanced in order to keep up with the science. They are proposing that DS should have curriculum compacting in math, so that he would cover 4th and 5th this year, and 6th and 7th next year. I'm am still a little uncertain how this curriculum compacting would be accomplished since DH was the one discussing it with the school. (Anyone who knows DH would say that he is an absurdly optimistic person who always sees the silver lining in a storm cloud.) But it sounded from DH like the school would pull DS out of his regular 4th grade math class for individual math instruction with the gifted teacher. Could this be too good to be true?

    So it looks like we are proceeding with the radical acceleration to 7th grade in science. DS will either go up to the Jr. High today or on Monday for a trial run. If all goes well, we will make next Wednesday his first official day in 7th grade science. The school wants to wait for few weeks before beginning the math compacting in order to not completely overwhelm him. But hopefully by the end of Sept., DS will have a special math tutor at his school. smile

    Wow. And all of this happened in a matter of 24 hours?

    I think the school understands the need to watch this carefully and make sure that it is a happy fit for DS. They are planning to monitor the acceleration carefully, and are willing to step in and pull him back if things do not work out.

    I just need to think about it one day at a time. Let's see what DS thinks of the new class, and what the teacher thinks of DS (his writing skills and maturity). Then we will proceed from there. I like the suggestion of asking for sample homeworks or lab reports. Hopefully I will get a better feel for if DS will be in over his head or not.


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    ebeth Offline OP
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    He got where he is without science in school so far. All the 7th grade class will do, it seems, is put an emphasis on skills that he doesn't have yet - writing - with no growth of the skills that he does have - high school/university level knowledge.

    DS has probably learned science along the same pathway that he has learned math so far. He feeds off of exciting, abstract concepts, and the more abstract the idea, the more he craves it. And so he knows a great deal about physics, biology, chemistry, geology... but all from a very abstract perspective. It is similar to wanting to know algebra, but not wanting to sit and work out the nitty-gritty deals. He could probably use to go through some of these basic science classes, if only so that they would teach him to focus on some of the basic concepts, i.e. the boring stuff that he just skips over. He is a child who sees the big picture right away and wants to jump to step 10 of an idea, without ever covering the first nine steps. I think that an early Jr. High class would be about right for teaching him to focus on details that he would naturally choose to rush over.

    I guess we will soon see. It is a giant leap of faith at this point.


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    ebeth Offline OP
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    Dottie has probably already posted this lol but I've read the WJIII shouldn't be used for grade placement. There aren't enough questions per grade level to make that decision. You would then go to out of level achievement tests, SCAT or the STEP testing.

    Very interesting! I had not heard of the SCAT or STEP achievement testing before this discussion. I will have to look into it. It is curious then that if the WJ III is so quick and dirty as an achievement test, with very few questions per grade level, that it is one of the achievement test accepted for the DYS application. It must be fairly decent for spreading out the upper achievement test scores for it to be DYS-worthy??

    Is it just then that the WJ III is measuring potential (with the scaled scores which look like IQ scores?) and not a grade level? But I thought that the difference between IQ tests and Achievement tests was that IQ measured what a child had the potential to learn, while the Achievement tests measured what they had already mastered. This seems to be the opposite of the scaled scores verses grade equivalent debate? It seems that the WJ III would be best suited to deliver GE scores?

    Maybe this confusion is what is really throwing me for a loop with these WJ III scores? crazy


    Mom to DS12 and DD3
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