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    #244784 02/08/19 06:33 AM
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    Adoption studies have found that adoptees resemble their biological parents more than their adoptive parents in personality and educational achievement, so I doubt that intensive parenting makes as much difference as the author suggests, but I have not read the book she cites.

    The Bad News About Helicopter Parenting: It Works
    New research shows that hyper-involved parenting is the route to kids’ success in today’s unequal world.
    By Pamela Druckerman
    New York Times
    February 7, 2019

    ...

    Psychologists, sociologists and journalists have spent more than a decade diagnosing and critiquing the habits of “helicopter parents” and their school obsessions. They insist that hyper-parenting backfires — creating a generation of stressed-out kids who can’t function alone. Parents themselves alternate between feeling guilty, panicked and ridiculous.

    But new research shows that in our unequal era, this kind of parenting brings life-changing benefits. That’s the message of the book “Love, Money and Parenting: How Economics Explains the Way We Raise Our Kids,” by the economists Matthias Doepke of Northwestern University and Fabrizio Zilibotti of Yale.

    ...

    American parents eventually increased their hands-on caregiving by about 12 hours a week, compared with the 1970s. Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Canadian and British parents ramped up their child care, too. (In Japan, hyper-involved mothers are known as “monster parents.”)

    Not all the changes were rational. When some parents learned that talking to toddlers helps to develop their young brains, they began monologuing at them constantly.

    But for the most part, the new parenting efforts seemed effective. Dr. Doepke and Dr. Zilibotti can’t prove causality (to do that, you’d have to randomly assign parenting styles to different families). But when they analyzed the 2012 PISA, an academic test of 15-year-olds around the world, along with reports from the teenagers and their parents about how they interact, they found that an “intensive parenting style” correlated with higher scores on the test. This was true even among teenagers whose parents had similar levels of education.

    It’s not enough just to hover over your kids, however. If you do it as an “authoritarian” parent — defined as someone who issues directives, expects children to obey and sometimes hits those who don’t — you won’t get the full benefits.

    The most effective parents, according to the authors, are “authoritative.” They use reasoning to persuade kids to do things that are good for them. Instead of strict obedience, they emphasize adaptability, problem-solving and independence — skills that will help their offspring in future workplaces that we can’t even imagine yet.

    And they seem most successful at helping their kids achieve the holy grails of modern parenting: college and postgraduate degrees, which now have a huge financial payoff. Using data from a national study that followed thousands of American teenagers for years, the authors found that the offspring of “authoritative” parents were more likely to graduate from college and graduate school, especially compared with those with authoritarian parents. This was true even when they controlled for the parents’ education and income.

    ...

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    Mindless dross exploiting parental fears is my take on the book - having never read it, admittedly.

    Of course being an involved parent helps.

    In support of authoritarian parenting, I have had plenty of colleagues of Far Eastern ancestry who have all done very well despite having had (by Westen standards) brutal parents who ensured that both of their eyes were constantly on the academic ball when they were young. They are happy adults with a robust sense of humour for the most part too.

    As an anecdote, I have been going to meet the same group of friends and former colleagues at various high end NYC steakhouses for the past 24 years. One thing that I have noticed is there that are far more tables of 20-30 year olds who are East Asian than any other overt ethnicity of that age group. Once I noticed that I kept my eyes out for it and have seen this repeatedly. These are not cheap places - their parents must have been doing something right.

    I do my best to reason with our DD so I suppose that makes me authoritative.

    At the end of the day the most significant variable is going to be the IQ of the child being parented, of that I am certain.

    Last edited by madeinuk; 02/08/19 07:34 AM.

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    Thanks for posting another interesting and thought-provoking article, Bostonian.

    This snippet from the article ("our unequal era"), also echoed in the headline ("today’s unequal world"), sends a strong message and I think it's the wrong message. It is my observation and experience that our era has more equality than any previous era... and more equality than many/most/all other countries today. To clarify, I am speaking of the plain, ordinary meaning of equality: in the sense of the Declaration of Independence (..."all men are created equal"...) and the US Constitution as amended (with voting rights added for women, etc); equal in the eyes of the law. The article seems to be speaking of receiving different levels of pay for different work, based on supply-and-demand in the labor force, as being "unequal."

    I find these parts of the article especially interesting:
    Originally Posted by article
    ... “authoritative.” They use reasoning to persuade kids to do things that are good for them. Instead of strict obedience, they emphasize adaptability, problem-solving and independence — skills that will help their offspring in future workplaces that we can’t even imagine yet.
    To me, this is not helicopter parenting or hyper-involved parenting. It is good old-fashioned appropriate parenting. Coaching to develop life skills including self-discipline. IMO, there is a dangerous trend today toward leaving these tasks of character formation to the schools... largely to public (government) schools which are all too glad to take on the role of a nanny-state while collecting Big Data on children and families.

    Originally Posted by article
    ... hyper-parenting backfires — creating a generation of stressed-out kids who can’t function alone.
    IMO, being an "authoritative" parent is positive and very different than hyper-parenting which may resemble coddling and/or being "authoritarian," two different types of taking over... unwittingly fostering continued dependence, rather than sparking the growth of self-reliance and healthy independence or interdependence.

    Originally Posted by article
    offspring of “authoritative” parents were more likely to graduate from college and graduate school, especially compared with those with authoritarian parents. This was true even when they controlled for the parents’ education and income.
    It seems it would be obvious that positive parenting for self-reliance would tend to yield more positive results.

    Originally Posted by article
    When some parents learned that talking to toddlers helps to develop their young brains, they began monologuing at them constantly.
    Hart & Risley (and others since then) have made it abundantly clear that it is talking WITH toddlers, role modeling the give-and-take in conversation, that is helpful... showing care and extending engagement by responding to what a child is paying attention to, demonstrating interest in what a child just did, elaborating on what a child just said. While this might sometimes take the form of being like a sports announcer in describing to a child the play-by-play of what is occurring around them... giving it context and meaning... this is not monologuing at them constantly.

    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    Adoption studies have found that adoptees resemble their biological parents more than their adoptive parents in personality and educational achievement...
    Wow! More "nature" than "nurture." Not to derail your thread, but I am very interested in this thought as I may be unaware of these studies/results, and still had the impression that nature/nurture was still "six of one, half-dozen of the other"... Would you point me to a source such as an article, previous thread, etc?

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    Originally Posted by madeinuk
    In support of authoritarian parenting, I have had plenty of colleagues of Far Eastern ancestry who have all done very well despite having had (by Western standards) brutal parents who ensured that both of their eyes were constantly on the academic ball when they were young. They are happy adults with a robust sense of humour for the most part too.
    Thanks for sharing this. Good to hear.

    It reminds me of the controversial book on Tiger Parenting from a few years back... the daughters, now grown women, seemed for the most part appreciative of the authoritarian style in which they were raised.

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    They are claiming it works because of scores on PISA at 15. I think I will reserve judgement.

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    If you read the article closely, you'll see that the author confuses two terms: helicopter and authoritative. There are a ton of mistakes and misinterpretations in that piece. The comments do a good job of dissecting her mistakes.


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