Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion In the news - fair & equitable admissions criteria

I provided it to you in an earlier thread where racism was becoming a problematic thread theme. Redux needed?

Would you point us to the research you refer to?

Would you please describe this, and compare/contrast how the SHSAT does not qualify?

1) Please note that David E. Kirkland (NYU’s Metropolitan Center for Research on Equity and The Transformation of Schools) mentioned choice, in this context, and I agreed with him.
2) The recommendations in the 2015 Policy Brief linked upthread and in the OP included empowering choice by:
- offering auto-signup for SHSAT,
- offering free high-quality SHSAT test prep,
- raising awareness of NYC's specialty high schools among underrepresented populations, to stimulate interest in the application process.
Which of these do you believe are unworkable, and why?

No. I don’t entertain discussions that support racism.

I think De Blasio and Carranza would like to institute quotas based on race, as that is the only method to drastically change the demographics of these exam schools to fully 70% Latino and Black as their stated goal. Unfortunately for them, such a direct approach would not survive a legal challenge. Of course, if they truly want to help these two particular minority groups, then they would propose actual substantive changes to educational services rendered during K-8 so that a higher number of these students can meet the cut-off test scores. Oh, wait - Carranza doesn't believe we should "segregate" students based on test scores! It's always helpful to use emotionally loaded words (even if used inappropriately) if you are trying to gain public support and intimidate thinking adults into silence. Personally, as a parent of cognitive outliers who are also high achievers, I have fought so many battles for the appropriate grouping of students based on test scores just so that my kids can get a semi-appropriate education.

Obviously, De Blasio and Carranza want popular support and they will get it, at least in NYC. Asians are a relatively small minority in NYC so it would easy to give up their votes. They have also historically been less vocal politically so really a great choice of vicims/scapegoats. I just "love" their sloppy confounding of social-economics with race. It would be helpful to see detailed stats on the racial and income correlation of students in these elite exam schools. If 60% of Stuyvesant is low income and 74% are Asian, then clearly most of these Asian students are poor. I would venture to guess that more than 60% of these Asian students are poor based on my personal college experience. There were quite a few Stuyvesant students at the Ivy I attended and all the Asian ones I knew were poor as the wealthy Asians tended to live in nearby places like Long Island or Scarsdale. I think one reason that these exam schools are so overwhelmingly Asian is partly due to NYC Whites gravitating toward private schools.

Nicely put Quantum2003.


And there lies the ugly truth. Parents with means will be able to send their gifted children to better and safer schools leaving those without means high and dry.

This is exactly why I support standardized testing and placement based scores in public schools. This way all high acedemic potential children have a chance at getting an appropriate primary and secondary education.

Honestly this point is so obvious that I suspect that comfortably off people vocally opposed to standardized test based placement in public schools are just pulling the ladder up behind themselves - whether consciously or otherwise.

Ditto.

There has been a similar move in our district's much less exclusive magnet programs, at least at the middle school level. It doesn't look like they are stupid enough to try it at the high school level, but time will tell. I am so glad that my kids are old enough to have missed this particular bit of progress. The district essentially got rid of the assessment and minimum GPA requirements for entry to the middle school magnet programs. In our case, the requirements at the middle school level were quite low with students only needing 70% on the magnet assessment and no grades lower than a C in core classes. Even so, there were kids every year who couldn't hack it and were returned to their home schools, albeit too late to benefit a qualified student. At my kids' middle school magnet program, there used to be about 300 students left on the waitlist after the top 20 or so made it in on "priority" based on assessments scores and then the first 100 or so made in it based on a lottery. The top magnet students were always the star students at the school even though they only constituted 25-30 percent of the student population and raised the reputation of the school considerably. With removal of all requirements for entry for this past school year, there were about 700 students on the waitlist and the caliber of the magnet students are no longer distinguishable from the general population. Some of the other middle school magnet programs were not as rigorous but I am not sure whether any of them will survive in a decade as is. At least a few of the high ability students who did not make it in based on this new lottery either moved or chose private schools.

This also happened at TJ in Virginia.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/...thomas-jefferson-fairfax-discrimination/

Another reason.. unlike whites, latinos, blacks, Asians also have prep schools in both rich (Scarsdale, NY) and very poor areas (Queens, NYC). Not just to prep for elite high school and exam school admissions, but also for college admissions. Other groups need to learn from this, Asian parents aren't just relying on what their kids are taught in school, neither are they relying on innate intelligence, they are relying on prepping non stop for these tests to get results.
Asian test prep centers give parents exactly what they want, results.

Chinese parents do organize and teach classes outside of the public schools, and where we live, the subjects have included Chinese language, art, contest math, English, and chess (the last two taught by outside instructors). The classes are held at a local elementary school and are open to everyone. Since many Chinese parents are mathematicians, scientists, and engineers, there are some highly qualified math teachers -- I have sat in on some math classes.

What an incredible investment of effort, for the sake of children's futures... and what generosity of spirit to offer access to all. In our area the Chinese Saturday School also welcomes all, and focuses on keeping 2nd and 3rd generation children in touch with their history, culture, and heritage. Some of these families come from incredible poverty but quickly recognize and seize opportunities to build themselves up.

When children are very young, giftedness may be best measured by innate ability, native intelligence, high IQ... but eventually... by the time of high school admissions... or certainly college admissions... achievement and accomplishment matter when determining who may most need and benefit from advanced academics.

The cultivation of other traits and skills (such as ambition, drive, motivation, persistence, effort, perseverance, flexibility, resilience, grit, curiosity, mindset, teamwork, learning from mistakes, self-discipline, self-control, and being a life-long learner) has long been acknowledged as important for success... possibly even more important than IQ. These skills, the value placed on self-improvement, and personal responsibility for developing these traits, have long been taught in families. I am firm believer in enriched home environments. Many of the ideas cost nothing... including frequent trips to the local public library... and especially holding conversations with one's offspring from a very early age (which research indicates as resulting in vocabulary development and brain development, preparing children for further growth).