Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Kindergarten issues - possible ADHD?

My son (5yo, April birthday) just started Kinder this past fall and the transition has been so so much more difficult than we expected. I knew that his handwriting was not great, but it was much further behind his classmates than I expected and he was very frustrated at the beginning of the year. He also has a really hard time settling down and listening and staying on task. His teacher has mentioned that although she's not a diagnostician she and her kids have ADHD and she feels like my son has similar tendencies. I thought he was settling in and doing a bit better but this past week we had 3 'oops' notes about various random things (running around and hiding under the table when the teacher left the room, putting stuff on his head when she left the room, throwing paper at a friend at lunch, etc). Basically, she's been giving him a lot of leeway and trying to help him learn to focus but he's still having trouble (she gave him some velcro under his table to feel, etc). She told him it's okay if he stands up at his table but he needs to stay near the table, things like that. At our parent-teacher conference she said lots of kids mature out of this sort of stuff after Christmas break, but the behavior needs to improve. I think she's particularly frustrated that he's getting up and doing something every time she leaves the room because it seems to be a willful, premeditated type of decision.

The gifted portion of things is becoming less clear to me now that he's struggling so much at school. They keep track of reading progress with a computer program and at the end of the first 9 weeks he seems to be 'reading' at an end of first grade level (he is able to read through some very simple beginning readers on his own now, which he couldn't do before school started). The teacher also said he's doing great with math although they don't seem to formally assess that. She said that she seems a lot of bright, higher-level thinking from him, but his focus would probably get in the way right now. He's a slow writer, does't have a good 'internalized' model of how to do the letters and tends to get lots of letters and numbers backwards (he is improving though). They do a LOT of writing at school, especially in the morning during reading and writing workshop. When he was very young he had a phenomenal memory for cars, still does. At 2.5 or 3 he could identify the make and model of about 70% of the cars he saw on the road. He still loves cars although Pokemon has become the latest obsession.

At home, I've also noticed that it's hard to get him to focus and step through the routine parts of the day, like getting dressed, doing homework, getting ready for bed, etc. He needs a lot of reminders or he wanders off and does other stuff. Honestly, I thought all kids did that, but after seeing him compared to his schoolmates, I think he has a bigger issue with it than most. On the other hand, he's usually great in public, easy to take to restaurants, and can sit and build an entire Lego model without much input.

Basically, I'm wondering if anyone else had kids with a similar story. At what point did you decide to get testing and what type of testing did you do? How do I discriminate between a real problem with attention and just needing a bit more discipline or time to mature? Any advice or input is very welcome. I'm worried about him deciding he's a 'bad kid' and giving up on trying to do well in class.

I'd try to get more data points. Maybe try a class at a library, museum or something like that. Even trying a t ball or basketball team will help you understand how your kid acts in groups with an adult giving instructions.

He took a soccer class earlier this year and he was pretty wiggly but participated. He did everything they asked but did look at me quite a bit. I think it was a much easier task since they were getting to do active soccer drills.

He was in preschool last year and there were never any real complaints about his behavior or focus (he got in trouble maybe 3 times during the whole year for making weird noises) but Kindergarten is a LOT more demanding.

When he was little the library classes never really kept his attention so I didn't take him to those very often. But he always did okay (not rapt attention, but not acting out) at random story times at the science museum and stuff like that. Basically I always knew he was on 'wiggly' side of the spectrum but at school he looks markedly different from the rest of the class and I can't figure out why.

I have to admit I find it odd that a kindergarten teacher appears to be regularly leaving the room, or that one can be "behind" in writing at the very start of the year, or that a kindergarten teacher would say things like "his behaviour needs to improve". Or what?!? If he is academically ahead by up to two years, where else should he be or what should you do? Seriously, it could be developmental, or ADHD, but the way she is venting her personal frustration does not sound very professional to me. What is her plan if he does not "improve as required?"

I am probably paraphrasing what she says in a more unprofessional manner although we've gotten a bit more 'friendly' since I'm the room mom this year. I don't really feel like she's being unreasonable. I think if he doesn't improve that would be further evidence that ADHD is in play. Also, if he keeps getting up and not listening she said the next step is maybe a conference with us and then a behavior plan of some sort (I have no idea what that means). Honestly, I think she's trying to be patient with him (maybe a bit too patient - he was supposed to miss 'Fun Friday' this week but ended up getting to do it anyways and he definitely notices that he's 'getting away with something').

She also doesn't seem to be super concerned about his handwriting, and has suggested that we have him play play dough often to strengthen is hands and things like that. It concerns me more because I know that he has noticed that he can't do it as quickly as the other kids and he's gotten very frustrated with it in the past. At the same time, he doesn't want to practice it much and often wants to try out variations of ways to write letters rather than practicing the same way multiple times so he gets a 'rhythm'.

I think what she would like (although she hasn't explicitly said this) and what I would like as well is for him to be able to do a task he's asked to do without wandering around, getting distracted by small objects or random questions, or talking to his friends. I honestly didn't think that was a realistic thing to ask kids his age to do, but now I see a whole room full of them that are able to do it! I'm worried that his behavior is going to prevent him from being able to do the GT type stuff that he would actually find fun and enriching but I don't know how to help him get on track. I'm also not sure how to tell if he's just goofing around for fun and because he's kinda bored or if he's genuinely having trouble focusing.

Edited to add: I also find it interesting how often they leave the room. It's usually to step out and make a quick copy at the copy machine or to explain a task to a parent volunteer, or something like that. When I was visiting one day she did take quite a while to explain some things to me and during that time my son chose to empty his chair pocket and then run around with it on his head. Sigh. I think the other kids also talk and wiggle a bit when the teacher leaves the room but my son seems to take it too far and can't pull it back together.

I think the course of action will depend on your family and what you're comfortable doing.

Some families with similar concerns go to their pediatrician and ask that their child be evaluated for ADHD.

Some go to a specialist.

Some go to an occupational therapist to address the handwriting and hope they can help with other aspects too.

Some might instead try a change in diet, sleep, screen time or exercise.

Some might try a change in discipline strategy.

Combos of these and others and just waiting to see what happens are all possibilities.

If I were you, I'd make sure diet, sleep, exercise, and screen time are all appropriate for his age. I'd maybe even consider going high on exercise and low on screen time. I'd also consider the discipline angle. It sounds like some of what he's doing was up until recently within the bounds of okay behavior based on your expectations.

If you're confident these parts are addressed, then decide whether you want to wait and see or get him help from some type of professional.

Keep in mind that an appointment with a twice exceptional specialist could take months (my son's booked 11 months out) so you could make an appointment and try other strategies while you wait.

Well...... just because the other kids seem to be managing it doesn't make the expectations age appropriate. There is a reason boys with birthdays near the entry cut-off are disproportionately diagnosed with ADHD. I am not at all saying yours is or isn't, just that I would never judge the behaviour you describe as inherently problematic in a kid who's only 5.

Maybe take a close look at whether he seems hyper, impulsive, unable to control his behaviour? Is he himself a little baffled by the things he does? Or does he seem unwilling to conform, be compliant, and is (perhaps a bit more intentionally) just looking to liven things up a little? Is this a cry for help in a badly-fitting environment? Or a child who needs help and accommodations with classroom skills? (or both! it can always be both.)

Are there tasks and situations that seem to link to better and worse behaviour? Can you have the teacher try some things for a couple of weeks and see what has effect? For instance, standing to work, being allowed to move around more, a wiggle seat or yoga ball, etc? And from the other direction, more challenging, engaging work?

And make sure that his behaviour isn't causing him to lose recess and activities that allow more moving around/ are more engaging - that's a fast track to a bad spiral in the wrong direction. Teachers tend to come at this backwards, but you don't reward good behaviour by providing appropriate curricula, you GET good behaviour by providing appropriate curricula. And that goes double if there are attention or learning issues involved, and meaningful material is essential to getting the child engaged enough to battle through the extra barriers they face in doing the work.

I know many of you in the US have schools with very different expectations for K, but I'll note - as others of us Northerners have noted in other threads - that our schools would never be expecting a 5 year-old to be writing more than the occasional word.

Thank you so much for this listing. I wouldn't have thought of trying an OT for handwriting, but that might be a good choice.

I've been trying hard to get a protein-filled breakfast into him but school starts early for him and he's usually not hungry. Same problem with getting exercise before school but we may just need to get up a bit earlier and see if that helps.

Would a twice-exceptional specialist still be something that my pediatrician would know about? Or will I need to seek that out for myself? I'm not at all sure what a screen for ADHD usually involves.

Thank you so much for your reply! Yes, I definitely agree that they're expecting a lot in terms of sitting and working. The teachers seem to be aware of it as well, but they still kinda have to get them through it.

His little brain definitely gets distracted easily. For example, when they visited the pumpkin patch I watched as all the other kids were looking right at the volunteer who was talking about the parts of the pumpkin. My kid was looking up at the ceiling at the spikes on the rafters they use to keep the pigeons away. He can distract himself with fluff on the carpet, random thoughts about cars or Pokemon, you name. it.

The whole figuring out if he's intentionally trying to get away with things versus not being able to control himself is what I'm having the most difficult time with, ha. The teacher has been trying to accommodate him quite a bit and I'm worried it's making him feel like he can get away with things.

And yes, I do think a bit more challenge might be good. For example, he'd much much rather practice his handwriting filling in the missing letters in a little word puzzle or doing math problems than just write the same thing repeatedly. I think they'll be differentiating things more and more as the year goes on, so maybe things will smooth themselves out.

Thank you so much again for your input, it's a lot of great stuff to think about!

Your son sounds more normal than the other kids unless they are mostly a year older.