Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 86 guests, and 12 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Amelia Willson, jordanstephen, LucyCoffee, Wes, moldypodzol
    11,533 Registered Users
    October
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4 5
    6 7 8 9 10 11 12
    13 14 15 16 17 18 19
    20 21 22 23 24 25 26
    27 28 29 30 31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,299
    Likes: 2
    Val Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,299
    Likes: 2
    I found a link to information that's blunter than what blackcat found: schools must evalute by law.

    Quote
    This is an interesting way to frame a question – Can a school be “forced” to something they don’t want to do?
    Does the law require the school to evaluate a child? Yes.

    You may wish to send an email or letter to numerous people (this sort of thing has to be in writing). State that as per section xxx of federal law, you requested an evaluation and that it was refused, which is a violation of the same law. Note chapter and verse the way Wrightslaw does, and ask why they're failing to comply with the law.

    Quote
    "A State educational agency, other State agency, or local educational agency [school district] shall conduct a full and individual initial evaluation ... either the parent of a child, or a State education agency, other State agency, or local educational agency may initiate a request for an initial evaluation to determine if the child is a child with a disability." 20 USC 1414(a)(1)



    Last edited by Val; 09/23/15 09:05 AM. Reason: More detail added
    Val #222761 09/23/15 09:12 AM
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 647
    E
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    E
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 647
    Originally Posted by spaghetti
    I just feel like this needs to be said: There has been a lot of focus on the negative and every once in a while it's good to sit back and see your son for the great kid he is. What are the positives? What is he doing well? What does he contribute to your family and the school environment just by being who he is? Forget the bad school fit for now. Remind him that he is a capable learner, and that if he does his part, you will do your part to support him to growing into the person he can be. Let him know that the other kids feel supported because that's what school is set up for, and that he needs to be supported too. (This could lead to an interesting conversation BTW where he spills his feelings and any resistance begins to thaw)

    And when you are gearing up for your next step, remember why you are doing it. For the wonderful kid you have and his bright future. And it even helps in the next phase if you remind school of all the positives. Plus, it is energizing.
    I like all of this a lot, and it's exactly what I want to do. If the constant threat of his being removed from the program wasn't hanging over our heads--I'd just move on. Pay for the services we can afford, work on things informally that I can't afford to address, privately.
    Originally Posted by Val
    You may wish to send an email or letter to numerous people (this sort of thing has to be in writing). State that as per section xxx of federal law, you requested an evaluation and that it was refused, which is a violation of the same law. Note chapter and verse the way Wrightslaw does, and ask why they're failing to comply with the law.
    I totally understand what you are saying. I feel like if I start referencing laws, it's time to hire an attorney. I'm out of my league.

    Nagging feeling: if I have to pay a lawyer to keep my kid in a school, why even. KWIM?

    The only rational reason is that I don't know what else to do with him, really. I guess he could drop out at age 12. smirk

    Last edited by eco21268; 09/23/15 09:13 AM.
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,299
    Likes: 2
    Val Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 3,299
    Likes: 2
    Originally Posted by eco21268
    I totally understand what you are saying. I feel like if I start referencing laws, it's time to hire an attorney. I'm out of my league.

    Nagging feeling: if I have to pay a lawyer to keep my kid in a school, why even. KWIM?

    The only rational reason is that I don't know what else to do with him, really. I guess he could drop out at age 12. smirk

    When you quote the law at them, you're basically snarling and showing that you have fangs. They know they're wrong, and there's a good chance that they'll back down. This is in part because they know you COULD (not MUST or WILL) hire a lawyer and they won't want you to do that, because they would simply LOSE and look very bad. The law is crystal clear on this point; there's no wiggle room for them.

    Last edited by Val; 09/23/15 09:33 AM. Reason: Clarity
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 2,157
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 2,157
    Also, you can start throwing around comments like "I'll have to check with my contact who works for the State, in due process, before responding to this" (or something along those lines). Show them that you are not going to blindly accept whatever they decide, and scare them a little bit. This worked wonders with my first child and after the first initial resistance and refusal to evaluate, the school was scared ******* when they figured out I had talked to someone with the state. I never filed a complaint, I just made a phone call, and made it clear to the district. I expressed to the school how confused the woman in the Dept of Ed was, by the school's refusal to evaluate.

    Val #222764 09/23/15 10:28 AM
    Joined: Mar 2012
    Posts: 639
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Mar 2012
    Posts: 639
    Originally Posted by Val
    because they would simply LOSE and look very bad. The law is crystal clear on this point; there's no wiggle room for them.
    in addition to this, a lawsuit is very expensive for the school district and it sets a precedent. My school district hires external lawyers who are very expensive, I am told. And there have been cases where lawsuits that end favorably to parents are quoted by others while seeking accommodations for their kids. Due to many lawsuits, public schools local to me are trying to work with parents to avoid many more lawsuits.

    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    D
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    D
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 2,498
    Originally Posted by eco21268
    Originally Posted by Val
    You may wish to send an email or letter to numerous people (this sort of thing has to be in writing). State that as per section xxx of federal law, you requested an evaluation and that it was refused, which is a violation of the same law. Note chapter and verse the way Wrightslaw does, and ask why they're failing to comply with the law.
    I totally understand what you are saying. I feel like if I start referencing laws, it's time to hire an attorney. I'm out of my league.

    Nagging feeling: if I have to pay a lawyer to keep my kid in a school, why even. KWIM?

    Yes, it's amazing how a Free, Appropriate Public Education can start to run you into real money if your child has special needs.

    I do think it may be time for a letter from the special ed attorney specifying what the law states. They are saying his disability does not have any effect on him, educationally speaking (this is what they mean by "no disability" in their letter). We know this not to be true. Sometimes a lawyer will write the scare letter for you pro bono and only make you pay if it doesn't work and you need ongoing legal services.

    Your other option (before the lawyer) is to meet with the superintendent of schools, or whoever is directly above the person who sent you this letter. Have this rejection letter and the NP report in hand, and show them. Let them know you believe that this decision is both incorrect and is a violation of the law. Ask them to do the right thing. May work, may not; cheaper than the lawyer route and lets the people in charge know what's going on under their noses. Gives them a chance to change course and do the right thing. Of course, they may have directly ordered the bad behavior.

    A call to the State Department of Education can sometimes make things move ahead, as well. I have found this strategy quite effective, and sometimes remarkably speedy.

    Apparently the school folks are hoping you and DS will just evaporate into thin air. Since he's attached to his program and you're both operating under such stress about the probation, I wouldn't let this go. I'd call them on it.

    Unless change is ordered from above, they may well fight you every step: the educational evaluation comes out "no problem" (at which point you and lawyer or advocate again call their attention to the NP report); they grudgingly admit the ASD may be something after all but they insist he needs no help or services of any kind. IME this kind of resistance typically melts only if you are willing to be very persistent.

    Personally, I have found it worthwhile to persist. YMMV.


    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 2,157
    B
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    B
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 2,157
    I obviously haven't seen your independent eval report, but I'm wondering if it focused enough on educational needs or impact. I think what you need is an educational psych. We took DD to a major university to a combined neuro/educational psych (I guess he has degrees in both). So he did neuropsychological testing but the focus was on things like EF ability, processing speed, memory, and achievement testing...not to give a diagnosis like ASD or ADHD (although she already had an ADHD diagnosis). Your outside eval has to be very blunt about educational concerns, or the district will disregard it. If you can afford it, I would look for someone who can do a "real" IEE, and then take that report back to the district. Or you can try to force the district to do it, just keep in mind what I said earlier about how they may try to manipulate the results. But if you allow them to do it, you can always disagree with them and then force them to pay for the IEE.

    Anyway, I am sorry you are dealing with this. I get the sense that you are giving up (or feel like giving up)...don't do that, just take a few days to think about everything and plan your next steps.

    Have they given you a copy of "parental safeguards" detailing your due process rights? Ours even has a list of advocacy groups to call, the Dept. of Ed, etc. I think they are mandated to give this to parents every time they deny the request of a parent.

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,074
    Likes: 6
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,074
    Likes: 6
    Actually, you should receive a copy of parental due process rights once a year any time you have official interaction with special education or 504 processes.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 647
    E
    Member
    OP Offline
    Member
    E
    Joined: Apr 2015
    Posts: 647
    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    I do think it may be time for a letter from the special ed attorney specifying what the law states. They are saying his disability does not have any effect on him, educationally speaking (this is what they mean by "no disability" in their letter). We know this not to be true. Sometimes a lawyer will write the scare letter for you pro bono and only make you pay if it doesn't work and you need ongoing legal services.
    I made a call to the lawyer, asking for consult/advice.

    Originally Posted by blackcat
    I obviously haven't seen your independent eval report, but I'm wondering if it focused enough on educational needs or impact.
    The whole angle of the NP was educational. I used the psychologist the program coordinator and counselor suggested, even. It's full of details about how DS' ASD affects his function at school.
    Originally Posted by blackcat
    Anyway, I am sorry you are dealing with this. I get the sense that you are giving up (or feel like giving up)...don't do that, just take a few days to think about everything and plan your next steps.
    Not giving up...stepping back to think.

    Originally Posted by blackcat
    Have they given you a copy of "parental safeguards" detailing your due process rights?
    I have this information. I'm not encouraged by the Action notice referencing the 504, and the 504 Coordinator suggesting to me that DS' placement is a problem if I ask questions or report noncompliance. It makes me think it's a systemic issue.

    I'm not sure which would be more taxing--continuing to advocate for DS or continuing to do what I'm currently doing in over-functioning for him. Since odds are I'll have to continue doing that part, is it even worth it to keep trying to have school give services? What if the services aren't of any use, anyhow? I know nothing about the SLPs in the district and DS' psychologist told me he didn't know how helpful the school would be with the EF issues.

    Who would I call at State Department of Education?

    aeh #222773 09/23/15 12:37 PM
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 599
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 599
    I could wallpaper my house with all the due process/procedural safeguard handouts I get. The school blinks at me and I get a copy. The trees man, the trees!

    Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Help with WISC-V composite scores
    by aeh - 10/28/24 02:43 PM
    i Am genius and no one understands me!!!
    by Eagle Mum - 10/23/24 04:11 PM
    Classroom support for advanced reader
    by Heidi_Hunter - 10/14/24 03:50 AM
    2e Dyslexia/Dysgraphia schools
    by Jwack - 10/12/24 08:38 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5