Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Interesting article

I am wondering how to "educate" the educational team without coming off as patronizing. I am pretty sure the general consensus is that this program is not for students with learning and/or behavioral challenges...if that is the case, though, I think they are not using appropriate identification methods. I'd have had no idea about that if not for this forum, though, since I didn't understand IQ tests at all and still have a quite limited understanding.

What I mean is this: if selection is based on GAI and not FSIQ, does it follow they are going to have a different group of students than they would if FSIQ was used, instead? And if the program is essentially acceleration in all subject areas (they basically skip grades 6-7 and go directly into 8, but not "on paper"--they still do three years of MS, adding high school classes each year), wouldn't it also follow that many students would struggle with the EF and social maturity required to succeed in this model?

I recently heard through the grapevine that kids bottoming out and flailing about is rampant in the program...but nobody talks about it. I'm hoping to learn more about that soon.


I thought this article might be a good place to begin, with the teachers, but am now rethinking.

Sounds like there might be a lot of stealth dyslexia or otherwise compensated LDs which make a 2e kid look average/lazy/smartbutscattered...

That's my thinking, too. The worst part (to me) is that not succeeding in this program might cause a child to question their intelligence instead of realizing there are specific skill deficits needing support.

My DS began the 6th grade year horrified when I told him he was likely to be somewhat "average" in the program but quickly adjusted his expectations downward as his failure to assimilate progressed. I can't decide whether that is good or bad.

When I told him he is on academic probation next year, his response was: "Well, I'll just have to work REALLY hard." In a way, I'm glad this is his response; however, I don't think he even understands what he means by it (since it's school-speak, really). I think he was working pretty hard last year just keeping himself together. At least now we have a better idea exactly what he needs to "work hard" toward.

Yes, 2e kids are one of the most underidentified portions of both populations of exceptionality (gifted and disability). Consequently, GT programs both underselect for 2e kids, and misattribute disability-related presentations to motivational causes.

I think programs like this are setting kids up for anxiety issues, giving up, etc. DD was in a program like this. The teachers claimed that it's not a problem to be "2e" (I asked ahead of time), but then they did very little to follow the 504, give her the structure she needed, etc. They gave 4th graders middle school work, but also expected them to have the EF ability of a middle schooler. Maybe many do, but many don't, esp. the 2e kids. It was the same sort of selection system--basically cognitive testing (and they add in reading/math achievement test results). I do think 2e kids should have access to gifted programs, but unfortuantely most programs do not seem to recognize the need to make modifications for these kids, and then the kids either flounder or get stuck in classrooms learning material they already know.(In our case we took DD out and put her in a school with "regular" kids but they cluster by ability, mixing up ages, so it ends up being a much better fit).

I wonder if this is even more true with kids who are easily identified as gifted (because strong academic skills) but have more subtle/tricky challenges (social communication, for instance). My current working hypothesis is that my son is difficult to spot because he's *not* math/science oriented (so doesn't present as stereotypically "geeky"), has mainstream interests (sports), and is extroverted/gregarious in social situations (not so much at home). He does not read as "anxious" but is quite anxious, and is overstimulated very easily in social settings.


Agree, especially about anxiety. I also think it's interesting that anxious children do not always seem anxious, in the way we imagine as adults. I'd prefer DS was in a school like you describe--but at this point it would be such a logistical nightmare, not sure how it would work. I think your DD is younger...this secondary school thing is so complicated. We chose the wrong program, but I had "drunk the Kool-Aid" and thought it would be perfect and appropriate for my DS.

She was grade accelerated in K before anyone knew she has ADHD and other issues, so she went into this program at age 8 in 4th grade and was handed an 8th grade math textbook (based on test scores), which she was pretty much expected to do by herself, in class. If we had kept her there, I would be working my butt off to teach her right now, because she would be going into h.s. Algebra I (again, basically teaching herself in a "flipped math" model). The teacher would have the kids write 8 page research papers on various countries or states....paper after paper, and if she found out a kid got assistance she freaked out and threatened the kid with an F. DD loved the science curriculum which was very hands on (robotics, etc), but in the end that's all the program really had going for it in terms of meeting her needs. I think that as long as you can get the teachers to follow some sort of plan (IEP, 504), you are on the right track. I failed dismally in this regard, since everyone pretty much refused to acknowledge a learning difference/disability and claimed she had to be failing before anything would be done. Kids in the program she was in, are by definition "advanced".

I kinda got the same bit about failing, but even so, that wouldn't be enough for IEP since it's a "choice program" and he's not entitled to be there.

Yes, I hope we can get a better system going re: 504, or ideally, an IEP. Not holding my breath on that one, though.

That program sounds like a nightmare for a young child. I miss our old, one day a week, non-graded GT immersion program. Depth not breadth, fit my DS much better.

It sounds like you've made a wise decision for your DD. It seems to me like the "dismal failure" was not yours...can't believe how different each situation/school/district seems to be. I wonder how much of it has to do with the geographical location/demographic of student population. Even with a degree in this stuff, I am woefully underprepared to deal with a 2E child in secondary education.

So right about the anxiety! My DD's teachers had no clue she was anxious until we told them. Even then, they told me they noticed nothing in class. She is very good at hiding it in public...

Yes - this! Fortunately for us, the school ID'd DS as GT (in SK) before we had any clue about any other E. But in his first gifted (Canadian) IEP application they put in things like "needs to work on perseverance and rising to challenges". Now that we know a bit more about things he struggles with, it makes some sense that his teachers would feel like he was just 'giving up' on things they felt he _should_ be able to do.

I admit that I found it puzzling as well - here's a kid who _can_ read well above grade level but refused to complete the assigned grade 1 reading homework with me; was asking to be put at a higher level for the computer reading program (Raz Kids) they had access to, but then refused to use it after a couple of attempts. Now that I know about his vision issues, it makes sense. But just telling him he needs to 'persevere' would not be at all helpful. And the teachers were telling me everything was 'age-appropriate', so...