Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Not gifted only anxiety?

I'll add to this as well as I have also DS with dyspraxia and accompanying dysgraphia (Polarbear was a huge help for me with my son!) My son has/had same problems until the actual act of physical writing was/is removed - i.e. when he can dictate or type his work. His processing on WISC was in single digits but his verbal IQ was sky high. He had terrible anxiety until he was diagnosed and receives accommodations for writing (i.e., scribe and technology). School kept saying he had adhd and his writing would probably get better if I were to medicate him. He never did get an ADHD diagnosis (although I didn't really pursue one) and I have never medicated him. He ended up with a dyspraxia and dysgraphia Dx. He is doing extraordinarily well with accommodations for writing and poor processing at school. He's very much like Polarbear's son except he does not seem to have the expressive language aspect/issue - that is, he has the processing and actual/physical writing issues (as in can not write letters going the proper way/direction, reverses letters and numbers, takes way too long in forming numbers and letters (or any symbols) by hand, etc. He looked a bit autistic when his anxiety was so bad (although he scored quite well on the social reasoning WISC subtest). He was rigid, inflexible (becoming increasingly so in ways that didn't make sense to writing like insisting on certain colors, certain things, etc., became phobic, etc.) He was really acting out ... Now that the anxiety is gone because his true problem has been identified and accommodated for, he's great. All of that is gone. Well, he is still pretty intense but I think that is a gifted thing

Oh and my DS does all of his DRAs orally and with a scribe... He'd still be at 1st grade level I think if he had to handwrite that test!

DD's end of the year papers came home from school and there was some sort of end of the year "how you feel about school" paper. One question was "How did you improve" and DD wrote that she is doing better at writing because she can now write more than 3 sentences in an hour. Not sure how true that even is, but I thought she summed up the problem nicely. On another sheet a question was "What would help you with writing?" and DD wrote "NOTHING would help me with writing." With her, she does not reverse any letters/numbers and doesn't seem to have any physical problems with writing so I don't know if "dysgraphia" is appropriate for her. The neuropsych said it's not and that he said her writing problems are directly related to poor EF. Typing or scribing helps a bit but doesn't solve the problem. Her notebooks are filled with drawings rather than "notes" and the LA teacher said obviously her fine motor ability is not a problem if she is drawing all over everything. In the end, I don't know that it matters "what" exactly it is...because the neuropsych said she should keyboard, use dictation, etc. anyway. I don't think it's a "language" issue, I think it's an EF issue (poor organization, planning, etc). When I looked at the Rey Complex Figure test she did that made it painfully obvious, she wasn't looking at the whole picture and planning an efficient way to copy it. It was done in little bits and pieces, for instance instead of drawing a rectangle with an X through the rectangle, she drew the rectangle in separate parts. So if she had to come up with a story, she would have no concept of how to plan a beginning, middle and end and have the story flow. She can try and probably do an acceptable job, but since she is gifted she knows when something is not a good story. In class she tends to just sit there and look passive aggressive, and pretty much refuses to do the work, she becomes unfocused and off-task doing something else, and it infuriates teachers who don't understand the problem. Teachers would reprimand her, tell her to "focus", get to work, make better choices, etc. and then an anxiety issue developed, because she really does want to please people. Now if anyone uses the word "focus" she freaks out. She will only do tests on the computer, probably because she isn't required to "show work" like you have to on paper (math teacher pretty much insisted on it). Showing work requires showing your steps, and DD doesn't do "steps". She can't organize the problem on the page, even. In her notebook she would have writing on a page, and then 10 pages would be blank and then there would be more writing, upside down.

My one note on the "doesn't matter what" is that it may matter "what" in determining how to remediate and help your dd develop her written expression skills.

Also, as blackcap mentioned, I doubt her ddis dysgraphic, but I wanted to point out for parents who are new to the forum or new to dysgraphia, dysgraphic students are often very capable of drawing without issue - my ds is a fantastic artist - when he was young he could draw pictures that were so detailed and accurate they literally left adults with their mouths gaping open when they saw his work. Yet he couldn't write. The two things (drawing vs writing), while they rely on fine motor skills, are two very different processes (handwriting requires a development of automaticity that drawing freehand does not). While dysgraphia may have a component that is tied to fine motor vs visual, it is actually an issue with neurological wiring, i.e. how the brain communicates with either fine motor or visual processing.

polarbear

And I think part of the problem is that problems with writing can occur with and as a result of ADHD, of course, and autism. And problems with writing can be due or have its root in a different disorder such as dyspraxia, dysgraphia, etc. It is hard to tease out what to the true cause. I find (and this is my personal experience) is that people/educators in my area are really quick to grab onto ADHD or even autism because they feel like they understand that. No one really knows much about dyspraxia and how that manifests and how it can look like ADHD and/or autism, etc. No one knows about dysgraphia, either. When we were on our traumatic journey of trying to figure out what was "wrong," I more than once had an educator and even a psych say - "well, we don't really know but he needs help so we just need to label him xyz" (actually specifically one wanted him labeled PDD-NOS and the other wanted ADHD). None of them even considered dysgraphia even though I kept saying "I think he either has dysgraphia or dyslexia and the anxiety is stemming from that." In my sons case, I really felt it important to get to the true root issue. Not sure if that was the right way to go or what but I thought it could be very harmful to him if he were to be treated as autistic, for example, when his struggle was due to something quite different. It's just really hard to figure this stuff out

This board has been such a relief. I don't feel so crazy or alone but the complexity is a bit overwhelming. I am inspired by your pursuits for your kiddos.
Irena - I can relate to anxiety causing rigidity. I think my kiddo was starting to develop a phobia or two until she got on the meds.
Blackcat - your DDs frustration is heart breaking. My DD is frustrated too, she's at least now able to articulate that she's frustrated (rather than crying, screaming, hiding under her desk, and/or kicking the teacher......well, she did hide under her desk today).
Did you all seek out a neuropsychologist or did the school? I found a neuropsych in our area that specializes in 2e. I think DD may be more complicated than the school can tease out (but I will still ask them for more testing). I'm also worried as we may be moving to another state. I feel like I don't have anything to make a strong case for another school district to put DD into a gifted program with an iep. She doesn't have anything "through the roof" and her eligibility is based on emotional disability (& teachers experiencing months of severe freak outs) rather than an LD.

The school did a poor eval (at my request--they didn't want to actually evaluate her). All they cared about was whether she did or did not score below average for writing on a test like the Woodcock Johnson. They told me that any other testing is "neuropsych testing" and they do not need to do any of that. However the State manual for assessing disabilities like SLD states all of the appropriate/suggested tests and there is more there than the Woodcock Johnson! They are supposed to assess for information processing disorders. She qualified as having an SLD due to severe discrepancy between cognitive ability and achievement but they told me she has to be below average. I rejected the school eval and put in a request for an independent eval at public expense. School districts almost always grant this request (although they may hate you) otherwise they have to go to due process which is expensive for them. It is the most powerful right a parent has. You do not need to accept their eval. They sent me a list of evaluators but a disability lawyer told me they were all unacceptable people and gave me other names, so I had DD evaluated at a University by a neuropsych/ed psych (I think the educational psych part is important--that was more important to me than having a neuropsych, because I wanted recommendations for the school and something the school could relate to). Once we get around to having another IEP meeting he is going to attend.

My DD seems similar but she doesn't really freak out in an obvious way. The only reason they know she is anxious (now) is because she started telling them. Sometimes she starts crying. Most of the time, if she is overwhelmed, she just sits there and does nothing. On a test to place her for math, it was multiple choice and she picked random answers to get it over with.